More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:16 pm
For those that like to research CG aircraft, here is some more info if interested. It is in response to a question that was asked by a CG Historian to our aircraft researcher. Input/corrections with sources will be forwarded.
Hi Doc,
If you are looking to determine “Bomber” style aircraft operated by the USCG, one must evaluate both USAF and USN aircraft. USAF aircraft were designated by the letter in its aircraft type designator. This would hold true with the B-17, B-24, and B-25. However, as the Coast Guard applied nearly all Naval designations to their aircraft, with the first two types listed., the B-17 became the PB-1 while the B-24 became the PB4Y1. The B-25 was a one-off and the transfer was done on the sly (for 2 bottles of Old Taylor whiskey) and retained its original USAF type designator. With USN aircraft, the letter “B” within the service mission type designator denoted a “Bomber” mission associated with the airframe, e.g.: PB4Y-2, PBM, PBY, etc. The letter with the “B” designator for aircraft operated by the USCG are:
PB4Y-1 (B-24) [ 4 aircraft ] Four PB4Y-1 airframes were transferred to the USCG in the immediate post-war period for the purpose of restarting the International Ice Patrol (IIP). One aircraft was a worn out former B-24D, two were former B-24J machines an one a B-24M. The D model was used for maintenance training while the M model was used for flight crew (pilot) training. All of these machines were assigned to the remnants of what had been VPB6(CG), then based at CGAD Argentia and operated on a short term basis while awaiting the assignment of the PB-1G aircraft.
PB4Y2G//P4Y-2G [ 13 aircraft ] These aircraft were operated under two type designators. The PB4Y-2G type was a holdover form the WWII designator and was changed to P4Y-2G in 1952. It had a lengthened fuselage while retaining the original B-24/PB4Y-1 wing. All were based on the west coast or in the WESTPAC area. The first use was as a transport in support of LORAN station construction & supply and carried the WWII designation as a PB4Y-2 (6 machines) while the remaining 7 aircraft were designated as P4Y-2G machines, utilized as long range support for SAR within the Trust Territories in the 1950s.
PB-1G (B-17) [ 20 + 1 aircraft - a single PB-1Z ] Most were received in a near new condition with only ferry time on the airframes but with the majority assigned USN BUNOs. Several retained their USAF serial numbers while in Coast Guard service. The PB-1Z airplane was borrowed from the USAF for approximately a one year period as the personal transport of the Secretary of the Treasury for a trip to post WWII Europe. This aircraft was configured with a VIP interior for BIG WIG transport. It carried USCG markings during its service with the Coast Guard.
B-25J [ 1 aircraft ] As mentioned above, this aircraft was used for LORAN station support where a suitable runway was available. (Seems LT Harned (later CAPT), was not too pleased operating a single engine airplane over vast expanses of the western Pacific Ocean - see below.
TBM-3E [ 1 aircraft ] Borrowed from USN stores, this aircraft was replaced by the B-25J described above. It was used in support of LORAN station development. SB2C-3/5 [ 5 aircraft ] During the immediate post-WWII period, utilized a rapid response machine for vessels in distress wherein the aircraft could reach locations and air-drop items to assist such vessels. Of note, several machines were used in late WWII in the search and destroy missions to locate and destroy Japanese bomb carrying balloons as they approached the U.S. west coast. These aircraft were based at CGAS San Diego and Hawaii.
PB2Y [ 4 aircraft ] Although records indicate four PB2Y aircraft were transferred to the USCG, we can only document the use of 2 aircraft actually operated by the Coast Guard - both at CGAS San Francisco. The remaining two were assigned to CGAS San Diego but no operational records have been located.
PBM-3 [ 37 aircraft ] These aircraft entered on duty with the Coast Guard with their primary mission as ASW and a secondary roll as SAR. Most were out of the inventory by 1947 as PBM-5 aircraft, with more powerful engines, were transfered to the USCG,
PBM-5 [ 32 +5 aircraft ] We have firm documentation on 32 airframes with the possibility of an additional 5 aircraft we are still chasing down. Not all of these machines saw operational service with the Coast Guard as many were simply acquired for spare parts as the Navy had purchased the new Martin P5M Marlin aircraft to replace their aging PBM-5 fleet.
PBM-5A [ 1 aircraft ] A single airplane was operated by the Coast Guard for a very brief period until it was rendered as damaged beyond repair in off-shore testing in heavy seas by CAPT McD. The USN had expressly requested the testing as being an amphibian, it was heavier then the previous PBM machines due to the addition of retractable landing gear. Also, the aircraft was being evaluated for USCG use as a supplement to the existing PBM flying boats. However, it was determined that the weight displacement of the single tire main gear was in excess of the majority of existing aprons and seaplane ramps at CGASs. For reference, the PBM-5 beaching gear utilized two tires per side main gear, thus displacing less weight per wheel versus the single tire configuration.
PBY-5A [ approximately 110 to 114 aircraft ] Still working on the absolute total number of airframes assigned to the Coast Guard. As with the PBM-5 aircraft, many PBY-5 airframes were obtained as a spare parts source to support operational aircraft. As late as 1980, 3 PBY-5A “hulks” remained in the weeds east of the perimeter fence at ECG. Perhaps the only true bomber operated by the USCG were those PBY-5A aircraft assigned to Patrol Bombing Six while operating in the Greenland/NORLANT area during WWII.
PBY-6A [ 8 aircraft ] These machines were operated much as the PBY-5A aircraft and appeared nearly identical to the aforementioned aircraft except for the vertical and horizontal tailplanes and control surfaces.
That’s it for B for Bomber aircraft unless you want to count the HU-16 aircraft that were armed with thermite type bombs that were used to bomb icebergs — I have no idea what the end purpose or result was hoped for. If it was to melt them away, the process would be akin to trying cook an entire elephant with a single match. Records would have been helpful. BUT since the official motto of Coast Guard Aviation is: WE DON’T NEED NO STINKING RECORDS, I’ll keep on digging.
P.S. The individual aircraft history for the aforementioned airplanes have been documented to their service serial numbers, dates of service and assigned operating bases.
Hi Doc,
If you are looking to determine “Bomber” style aircraft operated by the USCG, one must evaluate both USAF and USN aircraft. USAF aircraft were designated by the letter in its aircraft type designator. This would hold true with the B-17, B-24, and B-25. However, as the Coast Guard applied nearly all Naval designations to their aircraft, with the first two types listed., the B-17 became the PB-1 while the B-24 became the PB4Y1. The B-25 was a one-off and the transfer was done on the sly (for 2 bottles of Old Taylor whiskey) and retained its original USAF type designator. With USN aircraft, the letter “B” within the service mission type designator denoted a “Bomber” mission associated with the airframe, e.g.: PB4Y-2, PBM, PBY, etc. The letter with the “B” designator for aircraft operated by the USCG are:
PB4Y-1 (B-24) [ 4 aircraft ] Four PB4Y-1 airframes were transferred to the USCG in the immediate post-war period for the purpose of restarting the International Ice Patrol (IIP). One aircraft was a worn out former B-24D, two were former B-24J machines an one a B-24M. The D model was used for maintenance training while the M model was used for flight crew (pilot) training. All of these machines were assigned to the remnants of what had been VPB6(CG), then based at CGAD Argentia and operated on a short term basis while awaiting the assignment of the PB-1G aircraft.
PB4Y2G//P4Y-2G [ 13 aircraft ] These aircraft were operated under two type designators. The PB4Y-2G type was a holdover form the WWII designator and was changed to P4Y-2G in 1952. It had a lengthened fuselage while retaining the original B-24/PB4Y-1 wing. All were based on the west coast or in the WESTPAC area. The first use was as a transport in support of LORAN station construction & supply and carried the WWII designation as a PB4Y-2 (6 machines) while the remaining 7 aircraft were designated as P4Y-2G machines, utilized as long range support for SAR within the Trust Territories in the 1950s.
PB-1G (B-17) [ 20 + 1 aircraft - a single PB-1Z ] Most were received in a near new condition with only ferry time on the airframes but with the majority assigned USN BUNOs. Several retained their USAF serial numbers while in Coast Guard service. The PB-1Z airplane was borrowed from the USAF for approximately a one year period as the personal transport of the Secretary of the Treasury for a trip to post WWII Europe. This aircraft was configured with a VIP interior for BIG WIG transport. It carried USCG markings during its service with the Coast Guard.
B-25J [ 1 aircraft ] As mentioned above, this aircraft was used for LORAN station support where a suitable runway was available. (Seems LT Harned (later CAPT), was not too pleased operating a single engine airplane over vast expanses of the western Pacific Ocean - see below.
TBM-3E [ 1 aircraft ] Borrowed from USN stores, this aircraft was replaced by the B-25J described above. It was used in support of LORAN station development. SB2C-3/5 [ 5 aircraft ] During the immediate post-WWII period, utilized a rapid response machine for vessels in distress wherein the aircraft could reach locations and air-drop items to assist such vessels. Of note, several machines were used in late WWII in the search and destroy missions to locate and destroy Japanese bomb carrying balloons as they approached the U.S. west coast. These aircraft were based at CGAS San Diego and Hawaii.
PB2Y [ 4 aircraft ] Although records indicate four PB2Y aircraft were transferred to the USCG, we can only document the use of 2 aircraft actually operated by the Coast Guard - both at CGAS San Francisco. The remaining two were assigned to CGAS San Diego but no operational records have been located.
PBM-3 [ 37 aircraft ] These aircraft entered on duty with the Coast Guard with their primary mission as ASW and a secondary roll as SAR. Most were out of the inventory by 1947 as PBM-5 aircraft, with more powerful engines, were transfered to the USCG,
PBM-5 [ 32 +5 aircraft ] We have firm documentation on 32 airframes with the possibility of an additional 5 aircraft we are still chasing down. Not all of these machines saw operational service with the Coast Guard as many were simply acquired for spare parts as the Navy had purchased the new Martin P5M Marlin aircraft to replace their aging PBM-5 fleet.
PBM-5A [ 1 aircraft ] A single airplane was operated by the Coast Guard for a very brief period until it was rendered as damaged beyond repair in off-shore testing in heavy seas by CAPT McD. The USN had expressly requested the testing as being an amphibian, it was heavier then the previous PBM machines due to the addition of retractable landing gear. Also, the aircraft was being evaluated for USCG use as a supplement to the existing PBM flying boats. However, it was determined that the weight displacement of the single tire main gear was in excess of the majority of existing aprons and seaplane ramps at CGASs. For reference, the PBM-5 beaching gear utilized two tires per side main gear, thus displacing less weight per wheel versus the single tire configuration.
PBY-5A [ approximately 110 to 114 aircraft ] Still working on the absolute total number of airframes assigned to the Coast Guard. As with the PBM-5 aircraft, many PBY-5 airframes were obtained as a spare parts source to support operational aircraft. As late as 1980, 3 PBY-5A “hulks” remained in the weeds east of the perimeter fence at ECG. Perhaps the only true bomber operated by the USCG were those PBY-5A aircraft assigned to Patrol Bombing Six while operating in the Greenland/NORLANT area during WWII.
PBY-6A [ 8 aircraft ] These machines were operated much as the PBY-5A aircraft and appeared nearly identical to the aforementioned aircraft except for the vertical and horizontal tailplanes and control surfaces.
That’s it for B for Bomber aircraft unless you want to count the HU-16 aircraft that were armed with thermite type bombs that were used to bomb icebergs — I have no idea what the end purpose or result was hoped for. If it was to melt them away, the process would be akin to trying cook an entire elephant with a single match. Records would have been helpful. BUT since the official motto of Coast Guard Aviation is: WE DON’T NEED NO STINKING RECORDS, I’ll keep on digging.
P.S. The individual aircraft history for the aforementioned airplanes have been documented to their service serial numbers, dates of service and assigned operating bases.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:49 pm
As late as 1980, 3 PBY-5A “hulks” remained in the weeds east of the perimeter fence at ECG.
Where is ECG and what became of the hulks?
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:47 am
Chris Brame wrote:As late as 1980, 3 PBY-5A “hulks” remained in the weeds east of the perimeter fence at ECG.
Where is ECG and what became of the hulks?
I seen one of them when I went to Aviation "A" School in 1983. Gary Larkin got at least one of them and somewhere along the line a horse trade with Taiwan occured I think for some Japanese planes. He showed me his pics of the salvage. One of the PBY's is in a museum over there. I do not know what happened to the other two.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:16 am
Elizabeth City 1987 sorry about the big pics
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:48 pm
Where were those pics taken in ECity? I do not remember an outdoor museum there in the 1980's but I could be wrong.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:58 pm
Is that Elizabeth City? - looks like PBY-5A N3936A at Bradley Field, Windsor Locks, Connecticut, home of the Bradley Air Museum, later the New England Air Museum. It was there from 1955 to 1989 when it went to Kermit Weeks with whom it still resides in storage so that would rule it out as one of the Elizabeth City machines.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:27 pm
You know I believe you folks are correct, I have a lot of pics here and those had no info on them. 40 years has taken a toll on my memory I guess.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:59 pm
armyjunk2 wrote:You know I believe you folks are correct, I have a lot of pics here and those had no info on them. 40 years has taken a toll on my memory I guess.
If you do have any old ECity aircraft pics, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if you posted them.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:28 am
CoastieJohn wrote:Chris Brame wrote:As late as 1980, 3 PBY-5A “hulks” remained in the weeds east of the perimeter fence at ECG.
Where is ECG and what became of the hulks?
I seen one of them when I went to Aviation "A" School in 1983. Gary Larkin got at least one of them and somewhere along the line a horse trade with Taiwan occured I think for some Japanese planes. He showed me his pics of the salvage. One of the PBY's is in a museum over there. I do not know what happened to the other two.
Just to set the record straight on the para above about the Larkins machine, it was not Taiwan but Indonesia. The aircraft involved was PBY-5A N1563M, ex-BuNo 46539. This was one of the Elizabeth City machines and after Larkins acquired it he took it to Auburn, CA where it was rebuilt to static condition. It was shipped to Indonesia in the early-90s and has been on display at the TNI-AU Museum at Jogyakarta, Jakarta since. It is painted as PB-505 of 5 Sqn.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:01 am
David Legg wrote:
Just to set the record straight on the para above about the Larkins machine, it was not Taiwan but Indonesia. The aircraft involved was PBY-5A N1563M, ex-BuNo 46539. This was one of the Elizabeth City machines and after Larkins acquired it he took it to Auburn, CA where it was rebuilt to static condition. It was shipped to Indonesia in the early-90s and has been on display at the TNI-AU Museum at Jogyakarta, Jakarta since. It is painted as PB-505 of 5 Sqn.
David, thanks for the correction. There are pics of the 46539 at the museum out there in Google land somewhere. Gary has a sizeable scrap book showing many of his recoveries at different stages of recovery. He may share some of the PBY ones with you if you ask. John
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:57 am
Although not a bomber type aircraft I am aware that the USCG had some Curtiss R5C Commando's within its inventory. I am curious as to how they may have been utilized as well as any photos that document the aircraft in USCG markings.
JDV
www.fuselagecodes.com
JDV
www.fuselagecodes.com
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:36 pm
jdvoss wrote:Although not a bomber type aircraft I am aware that the USCG had some Curtiss R5C Commando's within its inventory. I am curious as to how they may have been utilized as well as any photos that document the aircraft in USCG markings.
JDV
http://www.fuselagecodes.com
If you haven't seen these yet....
https://www.uscg.mil/history/aviation/C ... ss_R5C.pdf
http://uscgaviationhistory.aoptero.org/ ... number=139
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:09 am
This is my first photo of a CG aircraft, Floyd Bennett Field. We were working buoys below her, Jamaica Bay 1967. John, You an Airdale??
When I first started taking photos I never thought there was reason to keep much info on them, who would have dreamed you could share them with the world one day
This is Elizabeth City
And I assume this is Elizabeth City also
When I first started taking photos I never thought there was reason to keep much info on them, who would have dreamed you could share them with the world one day
This is Elizabeth City
And I assume this is Elizabeth City also
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:34 am
HEY! I spy with my little eye the Sikorsky S-60 cab section in the background!
Last edited by Warbird Kid on Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: More Coast Guard Aircraft History
Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:37 am
armyjunk2 wrote:This is my first photo of a CG aircraft, Floyd Bennett Field. We were working buoys below her, Jamaica Bay 1967. John, You an Airdale??
Yup.....fix'em, fly'em type. Mostly helo's with a sprinkle of HU-25's. Did my 30 then headed for the pasture. Thanks for the pics. I also took pics and vids to help the memory in the golden years.