Dailymail Earhart photo in the marshall islands

[dirtysidedown430]

New pic shows Earhart Newlon and airplane on dock
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nding.html

[Ken]

The FBI photo analyst who compared the Noonan hairline was impressive, although I see now that the photo was reversed, putting his part on the other side. Either way, there must be some explanation as to why 1 or 2 westerners were on that dock in Japanese held territory at the time.

Ken

[Pathfinder]

"...I see now that the photo was reversed, putting his part on the other side..."

If you do a GOOGLE search on Fred Noonan and then click IMAGES you will see several front views showing Noonan had a symmetrical receding hairline on both sides--not a part really. I don't think your reversed image theory is valid.

[old iron]

'round and 'round we will go...

To begin, this program will be on the same TV channel (for me at least) that shows frequent episodes dedicated to ancient astronauts, "Finding Bigfoot" and provides real photographic evidence of mermaids (the real photos being of props from "Pirates of the Caribbean"), which is to say: maximum speculation from the very least and often contrived evidence.

I should say upfront that the only rational answer to AE's fate - to me at least - is that for a variety of reasons they got close to Howland but not close enough, and ran out of gasoline. The airplane is in some 3 km of water depth and could quite easily not be intact, and thus be very hard to find.

But we are now in a world where rationalism is not popular. Much better to jump to the conclusions of some conspiracy hypothesis (not a theory!) that makes a ton of assumptions with little if any solid evidence. The photo shown in the above-cited newspaper is likely a case in point: Who is the photographer, What is the time, Where is the place? Everything stated in the article appears as speculation without a specific or credible source. Without those specifics, there is no good reason to think that photo to include AE, FN and LE.

There are a variety of books out there on the abduction of AE by the Japanese, which to my reading have credibility similar to similarly reported abductions of TBMs by aliens. Assumptions here are that AE flew direct to the Marshal Islands (on a spy mission!!) or that she would fly away from the Howland destination she knew herself to be close to on the off-chance that she could find a similarly small location that was hours away, after having already announced that she was nearly out of fuel.

Application of Occam's Razor (the most logical conclusion has the fewest assumptions) is recommended.

[dirtysidedown430]

What no comments on my spelling. One thing i have never heard bout this is all fuel tanks they had to put in the airplane. With all the fuel gone ya sort of got a float plane going on. With nothing hanging off the bottom of the airplane and bumping the props out of the way heck with good sea even she could got it down. And they must have had some food and water. Bet old fred had a bottle or two some fishing gear be like vacation. Can anyone say Scully in the river pacs on the wing.

[quemerford]

Is it vacation time then?

Yet another pile of BS from the "let's go on holiday and get someone else to pay the bills" brigade.

I try to avoid this continual drip-feed of embarrassingly tenuous 'evidence' but it really does take some will power.

However I did appreciate Old Iron's succinct remarks above. Very well put and right on the button.

But while we're discussing the Daily Mail 'newspaper' article, a few quotes by them deserve highlighting because they show how contrived the whole thing is:

1. "The photograph, taken by a US spy working behind enemy lines, shows the pilot and navigator Fred Noonan along with the wreckage of Earhart's plane" - First of all why the use of the word "enemy"? Who was the 'enemy' in 1937? And secondly, I take issue with, "The photograph...shows..." Again, a great deal of assumption going on there, and not the kind of balanced presentation of facts that would be expected of a serious investigation.
2. "This would mean that Earhart and Noonan were almost certainly taken captive and held as prisoners of war by the Japanese after surviving the crash" - Again lots of supposition, but again, "held as prisoners of war" - what war?
3. "It also means that the government was aware that Earhart was taken captive,..." - again a lot of pejorative terms there, based on no evidence whatsoever.

For me, the whole idea that they were taken prisoner is where it falls apart: are we seriously suggesting that US-Japanese relations were so bad in 1937? Or even that this island somehow held a secret so secret that the Japanese would want to imprison two US civilians - and all this FOUR YEARS before it declared war on the USA? The only way this whole 'theory' works is that most folks think Earhart and Noonan disappeared 'just' before WW2 (or even during) and then it all makes sense.

I did also have to laugh at the paper's use of the non-word, "aviatress" - which is maybe an indication of how seriously we should take this all.

And apologies for being a bit tetchy but empty fuel tanks are not buoyancy aids: they have an open feed end and an open vent end which will let the water in (as they have done on many, many occasions): there is no reason for the Earhart/Noonan aircraft to float any more than any other aircraft which runs out of fuel and ditches.

[Fouga23]

Image was found to be taken after 1940. So no go for Amelia. Shame. Finally thought something would shut TIGHAR up.

[Ken]

"...I see now that the photo was reversed, putting his part on the other side..."

If you do a GOOGLE search on Fred Noonan and then click IMAGES you will see several front views showing Noonan had a symmetrical receding hairline on both sides--not a part really. I don't think your reversed image theory is valid.

While his hairline may, in fact, be symmetrical, I was referring to a specific picture used in the coverage of this story that was actually reversed which I later saw in its original configuration. The newscasters made no mention of reversing the image to make their point.

[gemmer]

Is it vacation time then?

Yet another pile of BS from the "let's go on holiday and get someone else to pay the bills" brigade.

I try to avoid this continual drip-feed of embarrassingly tenuous 'evidence' but it really does take some will power.

However I did appreciate Old Iron's succinct remarks above. Very well put and right on the button.

But while we're discussing the Daily Mail 'newspaper' article, a few quotes by them deserve highlighting because they show how contrived the whole thing is:

1. "The photograph, taken by a US spy working behind enemy lines, shows the pilot and navigator Fred Noonan along with the wreckage of Earhart's plane" - First of all why the use of the word "enemy"? Who was the 'enemy' in 1937? And secondly, I take issue with, "The photograph...shows..." Again, a great deal of assumption going on there, and not the kind of balanced presentation of facts that would be expected of a serious investigation.
2. "This would mean that Earhart and Noonan were almost certainly taken captive and held as prisoners of war by the Japanese after surviving the crash" - Again lots of supposition, but again, "held as prisoners of war" - what war?
3. "It also means that the government was aware that Earhart was taken captive,..." - again a lot of pejorative terms there, based on no evidence whatsoever.

For me, the whole idea that they were taken prisoner is where it falls apart: are we seriously suggesting that US-Japanese relations were so bad in 1937? Or even that this island somehow held a secret so secret that the Japanese would want to imprison two US civilians - and all this FOUR YEARS before it declared war on the USA? The only way this whole 'theory' works is that most folks think Earhart and Noonan disappeared 'just' before WW2 (or even during) and then it all makes sense.

I did also have to laugh at the paper's use of the non-word, "aviatress" - which is maybe an indication of how seriously we should take this all.

And apologies for being a bit tetchy but empty fuel tanks are not buoyancy aids: they have an open feed end and an open vent end which will let the water in (as they have done on many, many occasions): there is no reason for the Earhart/Noonan aircraft to float any more than any other aircraft which runs out of fuel and ditches.

Assuming that the gentleman who discovered the picture is telling the truth, I'd like to now how that picture found it's way into the National Archives. The Panay incident in 1937 sums up the state of US-Japanese relations at that time or at least the Japanese mindset
which obviously differed from that the US. If she was captured, I agree that there is no evidence that the government knew about it and
kept quiet. However, if they did, it would not be the only time that they withheld information about the Japanese from the public both during and after the war. The Dyess story was hushed up for quite some time and MacArthur looked the other way when it came to
prosecuting a number of war criminals while cultivating a new Japan with a democratic government. While purely speculative, it would be reasonable to assume that proof that Earhart was killed by that Japanese would not bode well for public support of benevolent post war treatment of Japan.

[JFS61]

Is there one good website that concisely and clearly presents the case against Tighar and its evidence?

A number of people I know who have only a casual interest in the case who have asked that I back up my claims that the Nikumaroru theory is wrong, and as they don't have the inclination to scour multiple sources like we here at WIX do, I was hoping that there was one comprehensive website that I could point them to that would satisfy their questions.

Last edited by JFS61 on Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Fleet16b]

Many reports now that the photo was reversed and the person identified as Noonan has a hair part is on the wrong side.
Further, I personally cannot see any L10A on a barge behind the freighter .
Not visible anymore than some of these ridiculous underwater scans that supposedly outline an Electra
I also question why if they are prisoners , they are sitting on a dock mingling with the civilians with no Japanese Troops seen anywhere . The Japanese Military was not that casual with prisoners

[JFS61]

Image was found to be taken after 1940. So no go for Amelia. Shame. Finally thought something would shut TIGHAR up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iator.html

[shrike]

One bit of explanation as to a lack of evidence in Japanese archives.

The Japanese military (the army especially, but the IJN as well) was well known for fairly junior officers in the field making tactical decisions without regard for strategic or diplomatic concerns (see the history of Japanese/ Soviet border skirmishes in China).

The local operative in the Marshalls could have made the decision to capture them and refer them to his superior rather than alert the world that they had been rescued/found. Once arriving in Saipan, the next step up the ladder could have made the decision that, having failed to alert the world, the easiest thing to do was to make them disappear. Problem solved, and an airplane disappearing without a trace over the Pacific is certainly plausible - moreso than explaining the capture, transport, interrogation etc.

I don't find the lack of evidence in Japanese archives convincing.

That said I am slightly dubious of a single picture that manages to wrap up so many loose ends in one easy shot.

As to "prisoner of war" and mentions of "war", the tensions between the US and Japan permeated the Pacific, not only in intelligence circle but pop culture, fiction, serials etc. hyperbolic, but NOT outrageous.

[Fearless Tower]

Is it vacation time then?

FWIW, the people involved in this photo research have no connection to Gillespie and his TIGHAR adventures.

Obviously, some folks are getting their brief time in the spotlight, but I don't see any exotic paid vacations coming out of this.

[Russ Matthews]

This more properly belongs under "Vintage Aviation"