Buried Butcher Birds in Turkey?

[Warbirdnerd]

Hopefully not a snipe hunt-
https://www.dailysabah.com/op-ed/2019/0 ... in-kayseri

[quemerford]

Been covered before. I suspect this one is aimed at the 'discovery' that Turkey operated the Fw.190. More specifically those who didn't know it already.

[Xrayist]

On my way there as soin as I load all the "Spitfires in crates", that are awaiting me!

[OD/NG]

Yep, old rumor that's made the cycle a few times over the years. Most credible people in the warbird world put this in the same category as the buried Spitfires in Burma. Could they be there - sure! But, if someone were to spend millions of dollars on something that may or may not be there, it would be a very risky proposition.If anything is recovered, it may be in such a condition that they are basically unsalvageable and only good for patterns. A case in point are the buried remnants of German aircraft that were recovered in the Freeman Field digs back in the 1990's - 2000's. From the pictures I've seen, it appears that most of the larger pieces that were recovered were very heavily corroded and would probably make a poor basis for a restoration without essentially making a complete replica.

I think a far better plan is to concentrate on the hundreds, if not thousands of German aircraft that litter fresh water lakes in Europe and Russia. There is a HUGE untapped potential there. The vast majority of those aircraft are in excellent condition and most could be brought back to airworthy condition much easier than a buried airframe.

[DaveM2]

I think a far better plan is to concentrate on the hundreds, if not thousands of German aircraft that litter fresh water lakes in Europe and Russia. There is a HUGE untapped potential there. The vast majority of those aircraft are in excellent condition and most could be brought back to airworthy condition much easier than a buried airframe.

Let me know where these "hundreds/thousands" of fresh water pristine aircraft are and I will get my Russian / Scandinavian buddies on to it ASAP.
Save them spending months in the archives and spending huge money searching and coming up empty.

[OD/NG]

I think a far better plan is to concentrate on the hundreds, if not thousands of German aircraft that litter fresh water lakes in Europe and Russia. There is a HUGE untapped potential there. The vast majority of those aircraft are in excellent condition and most could be brought back to airworthy condition much easier than a buried airframe.

Let me know where these "hundreds/thousands" of fresh water pristine aircraft are and I will get my Russian / Scandinavian buddies on to it ASAP.
Save them spending months in the archives and spending huge money searching and coming up empty.

I didn't say all of them are known. A vast majority will require research in records, archives, eyewitness accounts, combat reports, etc. It's just a probability thing. With the vast Luftwaffe losses, the odds of many of them in fresh water lakes is very high, albeit, widely scattered geographically.

I wasn't implying it was going to be a "walk in the park" to just hook up a few airbags to the nearest lake and pull out a Dora 190. Whoever does recover future Luftwaffe aircraft out of lakes will have to spend a considerable amount of time on research to even know where to begin searching. Even after that, it will take a lot of money and time to find a nice aircraft worth recovering.

Also, there was a website that made the reference to hundreds or thousands, but I can't remember where it was or even if it still exists, as it's been over a decade ago since I viewed it.

[quemerford]

There have been some incredible recoveries of largely intact WW2 machines (FW.190 included) in recent years from the former Soviet Union, so the premise that there are a good many more (whether in lakes or not) seems entirely reasonable. From memory the main recoveries didn't result from anything 'in the archives', but from local knowledge.

But however/wherever they may come from in the future, the minute possibility of finding heavily-compacted/squashed Turkish '190s versus the already-proven high likelihood of finding above-ground, largely intact wrecks elsewhere makes the Turkey thing pretty pointless.

If they ever existed.

[DaveM2]

There have been some incredible recoveries of largely intact WW2 machines (FW.190 included) in recent years from the former Soviet Union, so the premise that there are a good many more (whether in lakes or not) seems entirely reasonable. From memory the main recoveries didn't result from anything 'in the archives', but from local knowledge.

But however/wherever they may come from in the future, the minute possibility of finding heavily-compacted/squashed Turkish '190s versus the already-proven high likelihood of finding above-ground, largely intact wrecks elsewhere makes the Turkey thing pretty pointless.

If they ever existed.

Of course there are more, but banding about ridiculous numbers is just that, ridiculous. The recovery of the last two IL-2 were accomplished through researching combat reports in the Moscow archives, even then it took two years of searching to find the right lake. Last years Bf109 was local knowledge.
A search for a P-39 is currently being undertaken in the Kola Peninsula, months of planning and dozens of freezing days walking across frozen lakes have yet to yield a result. With 'hundreds / thousands' of wrecks littering the lakes, you would have thought they would have stumbled across several by now.

[old iron]

Concerning buried FW.190s, particularly of nearly prestine condition in underground "airports" ... maybe it would be easier if we could check off the short list of regions among the axis-allied countries where there is NOT such a claim.

I have heard a number of these stories, including two from veterans who were stationed in Europe, to now discount these all as old-wives (old-vets?) tales.

[JohnB]

It doesn't surprise me that these stories die hard...after all, despite having absolutely no proof, some people still believe that there is a sustainable population of Bigfoot (Bigfeet?) out there.

And don't get me started about TIGHAR and its obsession with their one island theory.
(And showing how strange stories eventually merge, the group's go to photo guy...who used to be given credibility because of his supposed independence from the group...is now an official board member....and yes, he's the guy who verified the Bigfoot home movie).

In short, people want desperately to believe unlikely stories whether they make sense or not.

[Chris Brame]

How about starting small and digging up the combat veteran B-17F fuselage buried under a vacant lot in Oklahoma City?

[Michel Lemieux]

How about starting small and digging up the combat veteran B-17F fuselage buried under a vacant lot in Oklahoma City?

Ok Chris...U started it

Pics, links, info??????

Much closer than Burma or Turkey for a starter....hehe....

[Chris Brame]

Ok Chris...U started it

Pics, links, info??????

Much closer than Burma or Turkey for a starter....hehe....

Here you go; scroll a little over halfway down and be sure to check the other thread mentioned within:
https://www.aerovintage.com/forum/viewt ... oma#p11500