NTSB investigations of bombers since 1982

[Baldeagle]

The NTSB spokesperson in Connecticut said that since 1982 they have investigated 21 accidents involving WW2 era bombers, with 23 fatalities. That seems high, can anybody come up with a list of the accidents? She said that three were B-17s (not counting yesterday), which would be Liberty Belle, 909 in 1986, and?



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[garbs]

Aluminum Overcast had a gear collapse in CA (IIRC) about 10 years ago

[Wilson]

I imagine there is going to be a lot of fire fighting air tankers on that list: Privateers, Neptunes, Avengers, B-25s. Really not a fair comparison to museum aircraft.

[ChrisAldridge]

Aluminum Overcast had a gear collapse in CA (IIRC) about 10 years ago

Summer of 2004

[Wilson]

Avengers and B-25s were long gone from the aerial firefighting world by 1982, so disregard them in my post above. I did, however, find one Privateer crash in 2002 with two fatalities, one C-54G crash in 1995 with two fatalities, seven P-2V-7 crashes from 1994-2012 with a total of 16 fatalities, and nine S-2 crashes from 1982-2001 with a total of 10 fatalities.

[T J Johansen]

Well, you can add 8 fatalities in one fell swoop with Doug Lacey's infamous PV-2 flight at the Seaplane Fly- In at Clear Lake, CA in 1990.

https://reports.aviation-safety.net/199 ... N7250C.pdf

https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19900929-0

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

T J

[Matt Gunsch]

The only bomber crash with loss of life I can remember is the CAF B-26 at Midland, the A-20 Havoc at Harligen, and the PBY at Harligen. a Harpoon in CA, and the PB4Y that broke up in flight but that was a fire bomber

[Mike]

The NTSB spokesperson in Connecticut said that since 1982 they have investigated 21 accidents involving WW2 era bombers, with 23 fatalities. That seems high, can anybody come up with a list of the accidents?

The CAF B-26 (5) and PBY (7) and the Clear Lake P2V (8) account for 20 fatalities

Then there are the A-20 (1) and PB4Y-2 (2)

[bomberfan]

Someone on Facebook said they looked up the reports she was referring to, and it was the 1987 909 incident, Liberty Belle in 2011 and the movie Memphis Belle but I can't recall the year. Apparently they had a hydraulic failure and ran into something with the wing. Those three contributed zero fatalities to her list, it would be interesting to see which accidents she included.

[TAdan]

Perhaps the CAF CASA 2.111 was included in that count being a WWII era Bomber.

[Mike]

Ah, could be. I'd forgotten about that. And not the PB4Y-2 perhaps.

Scary when you look at how many of those fatals involved CAF airplanes. 4 out of 5. The bad old days.

[Firebird]

Someone on Facebook said they looked up the reports she was referring to, and it was the 1987 909 incident, Liberty Belle in 2011 and the movie Memphis Belle but I can't recall the year.

The Memphis Belle movie incident was the French IGN operated B-17, which crashed and burned on take off from RAF Binbrook in the summer of 1989. No fatalities with that one though, remarkably considering what happened.
But surely that was a UK AAIB investigation as it was in UK, and with a French registered a/c?

[EstorilM]

Ah, could be. I'd forgotten about that. And not the PB4Y-2 perhaps.

Scary when you look at how many of those fatals involved CAF airplanes. 4 out of 5. The bad old days.

Yes but you have to keep things in context - in those days, how many other operators were flying LOTS of complex aircraft like this all around the country?

Even today, statistically (based on operations) any given incident is far more likely to involve a CAF plane, simply based on the numbers. No one ever seems to factor this in.

But surely that was a UK AAIB investigation as it was in UK, and with a French registered a/c?

Eh, if it's handled like modern commercial accidents, the manufacturing country is usually invited into the investigation - which would obviously be the NTSB in this case.

[Mike]

Someone on Facebook said they looked up the reports she was referring to, and it was the 1987 909 incident, Liberty Belle in 2011 and the movie Memphis Belle but I can't recall the year.

The Memphis Belle movie incident was the French IGN operated B-17, which crashed and burned on take off from RAF Binbrook in the summer of 1989. No fatalities with that one though, remarkably considering what happened.
But surely that was a UK AAIB investigation as it was in UK, and with a French registered a/c?

You've got the wrong end of the stick there entirely I'm afraid Firebird. The Movie Memphis Belle referred to is Tallichet's B-17, which suffered an incident in 1995 that the NTSB reported on.

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.avia ... 1207X04892

[GarryW]

I imagine there is going to be a lot of fire fighting air tankers on that list: Privateers, Neptunes, Avengers, B-25s. Really not a fair comparison to museum aircraft.

That was my thoughts too...especially Privateers and Neptunes. The other half is, of that 20-something list how many are going to be "pilot error". In talking to a retired Air Force Lt. Col. who was a safety officer and investigated USAF crashes, his words were "9 times out of 10, pilot error is the root cause...and the remaining 1 out of 10, is probably pilot error too". Point being, in that 20-odd list of incidents you're going to see a trend...most are going to have nothing to due with the mechanical aspect of the aircraft.