A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:21 pm
Two familiar and great looking post-war racers.
The Curtiss XP-40Q-3-CU #82 and the Supermarine Spitfire F.Mk.XIV #80.
With the limited amount of research I was able to dig up below, does it seem the XP-40Q was actually faster than the Spitfire? Or only at altitude?
Curtiss XP-40Q-3-CU #82
"The P-40Q was an experimental project which attempted to produce a really modern fighter out of the existing P-40. The modifications were in fact so drastic that there was very little in common with earlier P-40 versions.
Two P-40Ks (serial numbers 42-9987 and 42-45722) and one P-40N (serial number 43-24571) were extensively modified with revised cooling systems, two-stage superchargers, and structural changes which markedly altered their appearance. The project was assigned the designation XP-40Q.
The first XP-40Q was P-40K-10-CU ser no 42-9987 fitted with a new cooling system, a longer nose, and a four-bladed propeller. The radiators were moved into an under-fuselage position, with intakes between the undercarriage legs.
The most prominent XP-40Q feature, used on 42-45722 and 43-24571, was the cutting down of the rear fuselage and the addition of a bubble canopy as on the "XP-40N". Later the wingtips were clipped. The result was an aircraft which bore almost no resemblance whatsoever to its parent P-40 line. The V-1710-121 engine was fitted with water injection, resulting in a power of 1425 hp. Speed increased to 422 mph at 20,500 feet, making it the fastest of all the P-40s. An altitude of 20,000 feet could be reached in 4.8 minutes, and service ceiling was 39,000 feet. Four 0.5-inch machine guns were carried by the prototypes. Wingspan was 35 feet 3 inches (after clipping), and length was 35 feet 4 inches (2 feet longer than the P-40N).
The proposed production models of the P-40Q were to have carried either six 0.50-inch machine guns or four 20-mm cannon, but the XP-40Q was still inferior to contemporary production Mustangs and Thunderbolts, and development was therefore abandoned. Consequently, the production life of the P-40 ended with the N version.
The second XP-40Q was briefly used for postwar air racing. Registered NX300B, the second XP-40Q was an unauthorized starter in the 1947 Thompson Trophy race. It was in fourth place when it caught fire and had to drop out of the race." More info in the link below.
https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraf ... ft_id=1721
Supermarine Spitfire F.Mk.XIV #80
"Post-war racing Spitfires are always an interesting sight. This one, originally produced as FR Mk. XIVe serial no. TZ138, was purchased in April 1949 by Messrs Ken Brown and James McArthur with the intention of entering the Tinnerman Trophy Race held during the 1949 National Air Races in Cleveland, Ohio. The buyers obtained the almost new aircraft from Canadian surplus War Assets for a sum of $1,250.
The Spitfire received a civilian registration CF-GMZ on August 25, 1949. It received DOT certificate of serviceability and was approved for Class “F” racing. The new owners moved the plane to Edmonton, Alberta, where some of the locals remember it being stuck in the corner of a hanger housing a local ice rink. The preparations were simple, comprising stripping down the airframe to natural metal and removing all unnecessary equipment including the guns. The owners also managed to receive sponsorship from Imperial Oil headquartered in Toronto. The Spitfire received a new livery with blue spinner, red and blue striping, red propeller tips and Imperial Oil logo and the name EDMONTON * CANADA (in red) – The Crossroads of the World (in black). Blue canopy framing and the black racing number “80” completed the finish.
1949 was the first time since 1936 that the Cleveland-based National Air Race Committee had allowed a foreign-build airplane to enter its pylon contest. Conincidentally, 1949 would also be the last National Air Race held in Cleveland. Despite attracting the huge crowds, the dangers that the event posed to the spectators and the surrounding residential area was made painfully obvious as one of a racing P-51s crashed into a house in Berea, killing the pilot and a mother and child inside.
When entering the contest, the Canadian Spitfire turned out to be the only racer retaining all its standard features. Despite this, McArthur did well arriving at the 3rd place at the average speed of 359.565 mph. The winner that year was a modified F2G Corsair piloted by ex-Navy pilot Ben McKillen, who reached a whopping 386.069 mph.
The Spitfire’s racing career ended rather abruptly on the following day. Aparently the relations between McArtur and his partners had deteriorated, and while the Spitfire team were celebrating at the awards banquet during the following night, McArtur left the airfield at 6:00am, taking off in the Spitfire with the winnings onboard, leaving no trace of his destination. The next we know about the aircraft is that it was sold in Miami, Florida to a new owner for $1,000.
TZ138 survives to this day and is based in Richmond, BC, registered as C-GSPT."
The Curtiss XP-40Q-3-CU #82 and the Supermarine Spitfire F.Mk.XIV #80.
With the limited amount of research I was able to dig up below, does it seem the XP-40Q was actually faster than the Spitfire? Or only at altitude?
Curtiss XP-40Q-3-CU #82
"The P-40Q was an experimental project which attempted to produce a really modern fighter out of the existing P-40. The modifications were in fact so drastic that there was very little in common with earlier P-40 versions.
Two P-40Ks (serial numbers 42-9987 and 42-45722) and one P-40N (serial number 43-24571) were extensively modified with revised cooling systems, two-stage superchargers, and structural changes which markedly altered their appearance. The project was assigned the designation XP-40Q.
The first XP-40Q was P-40K-10-CU ser no 42-9987 fitted with a new cooling system, a longer nose, and a four-bladed propeller. The radiators were moved into an under-fuselage position, with intakes between the undercarriage legs.
The most prominent XP-40Q feature, used on 42-45722 and 43-24571, was the cutting down of the rear fuselage and the addition of a bubble canopy as on the "XP-40N". Later the wingtips were clipped. The result was an aircraft which bore almost no resemblance whatsoever to its parent P-40 line. The V-1710-121 engine was fitted with water injection, resulting in a power of 1425 hp. Speed increased to 422 mph at 20,500 feet, making it the fastest of all the P-40s. An altitude of 20,000 feet could be reached in 4.8 minutes, and service ceiling was 39,000 feet. Four 0.5-inch machine guns were carried by the prototypes. Wingspan was 35 feet 3 inches (after clipping), and length was 35 feet 4 inches (2 feet longer than the P-40N).
The proposed production models of the P-40Q were to have carried either six 0.50-inch machine guns or four 20-mm cannon, but the XP-40Q was still inferior to contemporary production Mustangs and Thunderbolts, and development was therefore abandoned. Consequently, the production life of the P-40 ended with the N version.
The second XP-40Q was briefly used for postwar air racing. Registered NX300B, the second XP-40Q was an unauthorized starter in the 1947 Thompson Trophy race. It was in fourth place when it caught fire and had to drop out of the race." More info in the link below.
https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraf ... ft_id=1721
Supermarine Spitfire F.Mk.XIV #80
"Post-war racing Spitfires are always an interesting sight. This one, originally produced as FR Mk. XIVe serial no. TZ138, was purchased in April 1949 by Messrs Ken Brown and James McArthur with the intention of entering the Tinnerman Trophy Race held during the 1949 National Air Races in Cleveland, Ohio. The buyers obtained the almost new aircraft from Canadian surplus War Assets for a sum of $1,250.
The Spitfire received a civilian registration CF-GMZ on August 25, 1949. It received DOT certificate of serviceability and was approved for Class “F” racing. The new owners moved the plane to Edmonton, Alberta, where some of the locals remember it being stuck in the corner of a hanger housing a local ice rink. The preparations were simple, comprising stripping down the airframe to natural metal and removing all unnecessary equipment including the guns. The owners also managed to receive sponsorship from Imperial Oil headquartered in Toronto. The Spitfire received a new livery with blue spinner, red and blue striping, red propeller tips and Imperial Oil logo and the name EDMONTON * CANADA (in red) – The Crossroads of the World (in black). Blue canopy framing and the black racing number “80” completed the finish.
1949 was the first time since 1936 that the Cleveland-based National Air Race Committee had allowed a foreign-build airplane to enter its pylon contest. Conincidentally, 1949 would also be the last National Air Race held in Cleveland. Despite attracting the huge crowds, the dangers that the event posed to the spectators and the surrounding residential area was made painfully obvious as one of a racing P-51s crashed into a house in Berea, killing the pilot and a mother and child inside.
When entering the contest, the Canadian Spitfire turned out to be the only racer retaining all its standard features. Despite this, McArthur did well arriving at the 3rd place at the average speed of 359.565 mph. The winner that year was a modified F2G Corsair piloted by ex-Navy pilot Ben McKillen, who reached a whopping 386.069 mph.
The Spitfire’s racing career ended rather abruptly on the following day. Aparently the relations between McArtur and his partners had deteriorated, and while the Spitfire team were celebrating at the awards banquet during the following night, McArtur left the airfield at 6:00am, taking off in the Spitfire with the winnings onboard, leaving no trace of his destination. The next we know about the aircraft is that it was sold in Miami, Florida to a new owner for $1,000.
TZ138 survives to this day and is based in Richmond, BC, registered as C-GSPT."
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:50 pm
The P-40 barely looks like a P-40. I like it though.
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:52 pm
Mark Allen M wrote:With the limited amount of research I was able to dig up below, does it seem the XP-40Q was actually faster than the Spitfire? Or only at altitude?
Not really, but I'll bet there wasn't much in it.
The Spitfire XIV is stated as being able to attain 446mph at 29,500ft - against the 422 mph at 20,500 of the XP-40Q. While the Spit's race speed is substantially less than its fastest at 359.5mph; its an average speed, and enough to give it 3rd place in the 1949 race. Looking at the race speeds of the 1947 and 1949 races, they're pretty similar for the places the aircraft were in respectively.
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:53 pm
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:10 pm
Interesting. I didn't realize the provenance of Mr. Jens Spitfire XIV.
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:56 am
Dave,
That Spitfire XIV is very historic and is an important survivor of Air Race history....she was also the inspiration for the importation and race modifications done to Spitfire F.24 VN332.
The story of the plane not winning, leaving the Air Races and her “abduction” to Florida is really interesting!
Great photos, and I wonder where the new windscreen for the racer P-40Q was obtained. It is not the same forward canopy on the prototype and looks a lot weaker than the original.
Joe
That Spitfire XIV is very historic and is an important survivor of Air Race history....she was also the inspiration for the importation and race modifications done to Spitfire F.24 VN332.
The story of the plane not winning, leaving the Air Races and her “abduction” to Florida is really interesting!
Great photos, and I wonder where the new windscreen for the racer P-40Q was obtained. It is not the same forward canopy on the prototype and looks a lot weaker than the original.
Joe
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:41 am
Joe Scheil wrote:
Great photos, and I wonder where the new windscreen for the racer P-40Q was obtained. It is not the same forward canopy on the prototype and looks a lot weaker than the original.
Joe
There was a difference in canopy design between 42-45722 and 43-24571/NX300B.
https://oldmachinepress.com/2015/08/18/curtiss-xp-40q/
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/b0/62 ... 84ca9a.jpg
http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af2 ... sl8le4.jpg
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:21 am
That P40Q is a fine looking aeroplane, pity they were not put into production, it would be great if one had survived.
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:10 pm
Scott Rose wrote:The P-40 barely looks like a P-40. I like it though.
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:27 pm
Neat.....
Tks Mark. Superb...as always....
Both in subject, knowledge and qualified pictures.....
Tks Mark. Superb...as always....
Both in subject, knowledge and qualified pictures.....
Re: A Curtiss vs A Supermarine ...
Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:05 am
Anyone else find this statement curious?
The Spitfire received a civilian registration CF-GMZ on August 25, 1949. It received DOT certificate of serviceability and was approved for Class “F” racing. The new owners moved the plane to Edmonton, Alberta, where some of the locals remember it being stuck in the corner of a hanger housing a local ice rink. The preparations were simple, comprising stripping down the airframe to natural metal and removing all unnecessary equipment including the guns.