FAA shuts down Collings Foundation tours.....

[Lon Moer]

https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-faa-says-collings-foundation-cannot-carry-passengers-20200325-twq2alj7i5gztllf6h4p22mjyi-story.html

The Federal Aviation Administration, citing safety concerns, has revoked the Collings Foundation’s permission to carry passengers aboard its historic aircraft, one of which crashed and burned at Bradley International Airport in October, killing seven.

[bdk]

"In an interview with the FAA on March 2, 2020, the crew chief verified that he received no initial training and was unaware of basic information concerning operations under the exemption."

"No seat with a seatbelt on the aircraft existed for the Collings Foundation Crew Chief."

So one of the survivors didn't even have a seatbelt? :-O

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... 11089-1673

I can't begin to express how disappointed I was reading the FAA & NTSB reports.

[Lon Moer]

While Collings produced some training records for maintenance personnel and pilots, the evidence indicates that Collings did not train the crew chief who was onboard the B-17G that was involved in the accident on October 2, 2019. The applicable General Operations Manual states that crew chiefs are assigned to every passenger flight aboard the B-17, B-25, and B-24. Crew chiefs must assist the flightcrew with duties as assigned during each flight. Such duties include, but are not limited to, assisting flightcrew with checklists and handling emergencies

[RyanShort1]

pop2

While Collings produced some training records for maintenance personnel and pilots, the evidence indicates that Collings did not train the crew chief who was onboard the B-17G that was involved in the accident on October 2, 2019. The applicable General Operations Manual states that crew chiefs are assigned to every passenger flight aboard the B-17, B-25, and B-24. Crew chiefs must assist the flightcrew with duties as assigned during each flight. Such duties include, but are not limited to, assisting flightcrew with checklists and handling emergencies

Well, the FAA's points do seem to have some legitimate concerns. Sad. What's the old saying "for want of a nail...?"

[wolf]

Colling's Foundation is screwed - falsified maintenance records, falsified training records did not have the proper manuals for the B-17. Improper MX, failure to preform scheduled checks.

If this is just the Mx on this ship, wonder what the pilots record indicates as well as his medical clearance.

40+ years in Commercial, Corporate, Freight and Air Tankers, I have seen sloppy paperwork, but this is bordering on gross negligence. This will open Collings Foundation up to numerous lawsuits which could easily end these flights (at least with the foundation).

I had to read the FAA report several times, and it would surprise me to find that a majority warbird flying today for these type of flights do not have the properly trained crews on board. If this B-17 crew chief was doing OJT as a FE then no way should he have been on this aircraft (for example, how many B-17 operator check the MLG landing gear struts for cracking - during WWII it was recommend every flight and 200 hrs disassembly / replace the hardware) (for example, how many B-17 operators have the FE manually check the gear extension o n land, as well as a visual ?) - for example, how many B-17 operators know how to put out a wing fire in a B-17 (chop a hole in the wing, shove the nozzle inside the cavity and fill the wing with foam) - this is all basic WWII flight information that obviously has been neglected.

If you want to question my quals - in addition to my aviation experience, I have for the past 6++ years been reading every B-17 accident report from 1944 - 1945 looking for information for my books. Over 1,000 reports and I have read some crazy stuff, but this FAA report is damning.

Attachments

[whistlingdeath77]

Colling's Foundation is screwed - falsified maintenance records, falsified training records did not have the proper manuals for the B-17. Improper MX, failure to preform scheduled checks.

If this is just the Mx on this ship, wonder what the pilots record indicates as well as his medical clearance.

40+ years in Commercial, Corporate, Freight and Air Tankers, I have seen sloppy paperwork, but this is bordering on gross negligence. This will open Collings Foundation up to numerous lawsuits which could easily end these flights (at least with the foundation).

I had to read the FAA report several times, and it would surprise me to find that a majority warbird flying today for these type of flights do not have the properly trained crews on board. If this B-17 crew chief was doing OJT as a FE then no way should he have been on this aircraft (for example, how many B-17 operator check the MLG landing gear struts for cracking - during WWII it was recommend every flight and 200 hrs disassembly / replace the hardware) (for example, how many B-17 operators have the FE manually check the gear extension o n land, as well as a visual ?) - for example, how many B-17 operators know how to put out a wing fire in a B-17 (chop a hole in the wing, shove the nozzle inside the cavity and fill the wing with foam) - this is all basic WWII flight information that obviously has been neglected.

If you want to question my quals - in addition to my aviation experience, I have for the past 6++ years been reading every B-17 accident report from 1944 - 1945 looking for information for my books. Over 1,000 reports and I have read some crazy stuff, but this FAA report is damning.

WOW, you read some books about the b-17 huh. You must be an expert then.

[Matt Gunsch]

WOW, you read some books about the b-17 huh. You must be an expert then.

I guess we have to defer to the expert, unlike those of us who only have been working on 17's for the last 30-40 YEARS

[WIXerGreg]

Wolf, where can we find the rest of that report?

[DoraNineFan]

Wolf, where can we find the rest of that report?

I don't think that the full NTSB report has been completed yet.

[menards]

Wolf, where can we find the rest of that report?

its is linked above in a previous post.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... 11089-1673

[WIXerGreg]

Missed that, thanks Menards.

[menards]

I had to read the FAA report several times, and it would surprise me to find that a majority warbird flying today for these type of flights do not have the properly trained crews on board. If this B-17 crew chief was doing OJT as a FE then no way should he have been on this aircraft (for example, how many B-17 operator check the MLG landing gear struts for cracking - during WWII it was recommend every flight and 200 hrs disassembly / replace the hardware) (for example, how many B-17 operators have the FE manually check the gear extension o n land, as well as a visual ?) - for example, how many B-17 operators know how to put out a wing fire in a B-17 (chop a hole in the wing, shove the nozzle inside the cavity and fill the wing with foam) - this is all basic WWII flight information that obviously has been neglected.

I agree with most of what your saying. The Foundation is screwed, the report is damning, gross negligence, etc etc...

The Wings of Freedom tour is now a thing of history. The feds put a stop to it, its over. That said, here is where you go off the rails...you chose to take a few reads through the FAA report, then come on a WIX forum and then start to infer or imply that all organizations and operators are operating their planes in a similar, negligent manner. Many of the active participating contributors to these threads are pilots, crew, volunteers, mechanics, or members of the various operators that support this passion. Many will be offended by your remarks because they all take take a lot pride in their respective contribution (however small or large it may be) to keep these memories alive. You should spend as much time and effort researching each of the organizations that operate these birds that you do reading old manuals and accident reports. Many of them in recent times made the difficult decision to ground their plans while they sorted issues. For example, FiFi was grounded for years for safety reasons until they figured out a new power plant solution. That said, there will likely be a deep dive into all operators' records. There will obviously be a lot tighter scrutiny. The feds may stop all rides all together, who knows. That said, don't come onto an anonymous message board making blanket statements about how "the majority" of warbird operators are cutting corners, neglecting regulations and don't have basic knowledge about the air frames they spent a lifetime being passionate about. It's an absurd notion.

Last edited by menards on Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

[menards]

Wolf, where can we find the rest of that report?

I don't think that the full NTSB report has been completed yet.

This was not the NTSB report, it was the FAA ruling and supporting justification to rescind Collings' exemption to offer rides.

[whistlingdeath77]

WOW, you read some books about the b-17 huh. You must be an expert then.

I guess we have to defer to the expert, unlike those of us who only have been working on 17's for the last 30-40 YEARS

Exactly. I watched 12 o’clock high one time so I guess that makes me an expert too lol.

[wolf]

WOW, you read some books about the b-17 huh. You must be an expert then.

I guess we have to defer to the expert, unlike those of us who only have been working on 17's for the last 30-40 YEARS

and some of us worked on B-17 / PB-1W's when they were still working air tankers, but being a big shot, big mouth must make you special. Guess you would be perfect candidate to be a B-17 FE with the Collings Foundation