Ki-84 defeats P-51 in dogfight at LAX

[Baldeagle]

Or maybe Ontario? I thought I saw the famous LAX restaurant in the background of one shot.
This must've been posted here in the past, but worth a re-post. With no airshow it's something good to pass a little time in quarantine...

https://youtu.be/8waXqQoBri4






-

Last edited by Baldeagle on Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mike furline]

The Ki-84 today, http://www.chiran-tokkou.jp/english/flo ... index.html

The P-51 today, https://planesoffame.org/aircraft/plane-P-51D-Dolly

[Baldeagle]

Does anyone know more of the back story on this?



-

[Kyleb]

Does anyone know more of the back story on this?

This is a straight quote from Wikipedia:

"One example captured at Clark Field during 1945, serial number 1446, was transported aboard the USS Long Island aircraft carrier to the United States. In 1952 it was sold off as surplus to Edward Maloney, owner of the Ontario Air Museum (Planes of Fame Air Museum) and restored to flying condition before being returned to Japan for display at the Arashiyama Museum in Kyoto in 1973. With unsupervised access allowed to the aircraft, parts were stolen from the Ki-84, and coupled with the years of neglect it could no longer fly. Following the museum's closure in 1991, the aircraft was transferred to the Tokko Heiwa Kinen-kan Museum, Kagoshima Prefecture, where it still is displayed to this day. It is the only surviving Ki-84"

[bdk]

It says Claremont on the video, but I'm pretty sure much of the big airport stuff was filmed at Ontario Airport (a big Air National Guard bases at the time) where they had a facility later. The Seversky (and P-38 pictured) might have been flying out of Cable Airport which was adjacent to their old Claremont location.

Mustang belly landing with the Ki-84 taxiing around was at LAX I believe. You can see all the Western and United Airlines hangars.

Would have loved to see the Ki-84 fly!

One of those hangars has B-70 Valkyrie written across the top which seems odd. Maybe a North American hangar at LAX.

[Joe Scheil]

Lots and lots of history here. The Planes of Fame collection is the original "Air Museum", and the first successful private air museum. It is still in business and deserves a SERIES of books to chronicle the decades as they came, and the struggles and triumphs of the Air Museum family. I truly believe that this is our (the aviation preservation movement's) most compelling story from so many aspects. What is really important to know is that when one of the first gatherings of "like minded" people in the aviation center of the planet (Los Angeles) occurred and became the AAHS, Ed Maloney was there. What is more interesting was that the consensus of designers, engineers, historians and pilots was that it was the task to preserve a photo and a story of what each aircraft had been was the best that could be hoped for. It was felt at the time so much was missing and already gone that even this would be a herculean task. It must have been a wonderful achievement for Ed to be back there with his flying gems of the air.

What is noteworthy is his ambition, and the ambition of his friends. They were preserving very historic aircraft on a level no other collection was attempting. Incredible.

The Museum must remind people that is has been a Southern California Institution since 1957 or so....kinda like In and Out!

The hangars were at Ontario Airport and were occupied by the museum from 1962-1970. This was a real home, and when the redevelopment of Ontario forced them out, the "nomadic" period was very difficult I would guess. It was never easy for them, but this was hard. I talked with Ed a bit years ago and wished I could have gotten the whole story so many times, but he was always such a gentleman in the classic sense and probably kept some things private.


The B-17 and the SNJ are still present at the Museum, the SB2C is at Yanks (I wish it would return to become part of a "Core" "Collection of Legends" or something) The specialness of the O-47, North American's FIRST aircraft was very important to Ed, and should be to all southern Californians. It is amazing that the Planes of Fame museum has one in the wings under restoration. Its such an important plane. The shots of the P-26 and P-12 are spectacular, and it was so prescient of Ed to chase those down. The survival of any of those prewar types after the scrap drives of WWII was nothing short of miraculous. Ed knew how important they were. He always collected everything and I believe did not see the "primacy" so many see in fighters over all else. His AT-10 was a sad casualty of time, but was evidence of his desire to save something of everything.

The FICON RF-84F and D-558 still are there and survive in to collection...How they went to Ed I don't know. However they fired my imagination when I was a little kid and got to sit with them. I tried to visualize that B-36!

The F8F now flies with Stephen Grey and was a beautiful opener to the Duxford show for so many years. Truly a special plane.
The Hanroit at Ontario and then the Seversky at Banning Airport during her recovery flight still in her postwar racing markings is spectacular. That may be WWII ace Bud Mahurin as the pilot or Don Lykins, I forget. What is important is Ed saved the Seversky and had had his eye on the P-51C that was there which was almost as important to him. The derelict P-51C went to Hayward Airport and was bellied there and almost totally scrapped although the tail went to N51PR. He was very very smart, and he could only save one. The black P-38/F-5G is at Brackett Field and Ed sure wanted that plane. they wanted $500.00 for the plane which could have been the moon to Ed, he did not have the money. He told me he visited all the time and cried a little bit and they let him have it for less. He was such a great man.

The LAX air display that happened after is a really neat gathering I did not know about. I think the white shirts and ties should be REQUIRED for the ramp crew for the next airshow. They were really trying to make a good impression and were probably in front of a lot of NAA/Rockwell peers who were very interested to see the results of the last decade of work. The XB-70 style flight helmet int he P-26 is just awesome and looks rather space age, much more modern than the HGU-55 in some ways. The "Theme building" at LAX (Spider) is a 1961 build and yet seems very alone out there. The XB-70 was built in Palmdale but ordered in 1961 so its interesting to me the structure and the bomber were contemporaries. What is neat is that the sign says "B-70 Valkyrie" so they really seemed to want to be in production!

The Mustang belly is a cool thing to watch because it is the only "one owner" civilian P-51D that has always been operated. N5441V was ex WV ANG and is an American icon, being the only "continuously" operated P-51 in the world since new. (She has had periods of inactivity, but this is as close as it gets) The United Airlines DC-6 hangars in the background have just been razed (Jan/Feb 2020) and are now just rubble. The Lockheed in the foreground is a Goodyear ire and rubber executive aircraft, ex USAAF 42-55969 and registered N22G. Strangely she survives as the beautiful N781G though I haven't seen her in 10 years or so.

I would love to write that history with the help of all of the folks someday....but its incredible how amazing it was when you look back at all of those "one of a kind" planes.

[aerovin]

I visited the Ontario Air Museum in 1966 on a quest to find the 12 O'Clock High B-17. I was all of eleven years old but my dad made it a family outing. The museum at Ontario was great but was disappointed not to find the B-17 there. On the way home to Orange County we were driving up Euclid Avenue in the middle of nowhere when we saw the B-17 parked there at the Chino airport. The exterior sets for the TV series were also found there that day. Spent quite a bit of time running around that airport that afternoon. I was in seventh heaven. Memories, etc. Ed Maloney was a true visionary.

[Clifford Bossie]

My father and I visited the museum at Ontario a couple of times when I was in grade school and it left a great impression on me. When "Twelve O'clock High" was still on TV the B-17 visited Biggs AFB as well, so I always felt a connection and try and make it back to Planes of Fame at least once a year.

Does anyone have a photo of the B-36 nose that was at Ontario for a few years?

[Zac Yates]

What a remarkable film! That was amazing! So many treasures, and such evocative footage. I agree the white shirts and ties on the ground crew looked pretty good!

The Hanroit at Ontario and then the Seversky at Banning Airport during her recovery flight still in her postwar racing markings is spectacular.

To add to Joe’s wonderful history and airframe summary, the Hanriot remains airworthy and is based at Hood Aerodrome here in New Zealand - part of Sir Peter Jackson’s TVAL fleet. I’ve not yet seen it fly myself (these are my photos) but I’ve seen plenty of evidence that it has


[url=tools.sportscard.trade]Generated from my Apple iPhone using tools.sportscard.trade[/url]

[url=tools.sportscard.trade]Generated from my Apple iPhone using tools.sportscard.trade[/url]

[url=tools.sportscard.trade]Generated from my Apple iPhone using tools.sportscard.trade[/url]

[Baldeagle]

Zac, that's a different Hanriot, the Nungesser one is still at Chino.
Thanks everyone for the great stories. I grew up at Old Rhinebeck, which officially started in 1959, so only a few years behind Planes of Fame. I met Ed Maloney several times, and he always remembered my Rhinebeck connection. He was clearly a wonderful man and a pied piper with a lot of similarities to Cole Palen, who founded Old Rhinebeck.



-

[bdk]

Lots and lots of history here. .

Great summary Joe!

[Adam Kline]

I would love to write that history with the help of all of the folks someday....but its incredible how amazing it was when you look back at all of those "one of a kind" planes.

Joe, can you right more please and maybe self publish? This is all very fascinating. I was lucky to have met Ed a few times, but I really can't comprehend how he managed all this love and passion.

Adam

[Zac Yates]

Zac, that's a different Hanriot, the Nungesser one is still at Chino.

Aha! I knew there was a reason I was only 99% sure. Thank you.

[bdk]

I was lucky to have met Ed a few times, but I really can't comprehend how he managed all this love and passion.

I credit his very tolerant wife, Louise. She was a very nice lady!

[wendovertom]

Great video - when was the last time a bunch of guys in white shirts and ties helped you fire up your Peashooter?!

Tom P.