B-17 Swoose - Any News?

[APG85]

Has there been any activity in Dayton on the Swoose lately? Just curious if there is a plan...

[JohnB]

When I saw it ten years ago (early May 2011 to be exact), in the NMUSAF Restoration shop next to the Memphis Belle, I was told they would finish it after the Belle.

[WIXerGreg]

The website shows this:

Please Note: Work on this aircraft has temporarily been suspended as the Restoration Division focuses on other top priorities.

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit ... he-swoose/

The pictures show it in the same state as when I was last there in 2012.

[17f]

Understandably, time and money are finite, and limited resources, but...

She`s the oldest surviving example of the type. A combat vet. And a combat vet from a period when the U.S. was in pretty dire need of combat aircraft.

The Smithsonian got her in 1949. The USAFM got her in 2008. Other than Aero Trader fabricating the belly gun tub, and the museum removing the nose skin containing the flags, I don`t believe much else has been done to her.

72 years... and nada from 2 great aviation institutions. Pretty frustrating I think.

[aerovin]

Forget restoration. At this point, it would be nice if they just put the thing back together with what they have on hand and stick it the corner somewhere on public display. That would be better than its current state as it’s been for the last 70+ years. I had high hopes when the NMUSAF got it but all we ever get are excuses.

[JohnB]

Seems like a good time to continue my favorite rant ...that the National Air Museum still doesn't have a B-17, of any type, on display.

Lists of room for aeronautical dead ends and freaks, but not an example of an iconic American warplane.

[menards]

Seems like a good time to continue my favorite rant ...that the National Air Museum still doesn't have a B-17, of any type, on display.

Lists of room for aeronautical dead ends and freaks, but not an example of an iconic American warplane.

They have the Boeing 307 non-bomber variant.

[martin_sam_2000]

Seems like a good time to continue my favorite rant ...that the National Air Museum still doesn't have a B-17, of any type, on display.

Lists of room for aeronautical dead ends and freaks, but not an example of an iconic American warplane.

They are supposed to get SHOO SHOO SHOO BABY from the NMUSAF when they have the space for it.

Sean

[lucky52]

I agree, just put it together and inside somewhere.

[mexchiwa]

The Thunderbird mural doesn’t count?

[JohnB]

Seems like a good time to continue my favorite rant ...that the National Air Museum still doesn't have a B-17, of any type, on display.

Lists of room for aeronautical dead ends and freaks, but not an example of an iconic American warplane.

They are supposed to get SHOO SHOO SHOO BABY from the NMUSAF when they have the space for it.

Sean

I have heard that one will eventually go on display, but it would have been nice to have one in the nation's most prestigious museum while some of the men and women who designed, built, maintained and flew them were still alive.

[Ken]

I am equally disappointed and share some of the same frustrations. From working on another project recently, I do have some insight. "My opinion only".

The NASM folks had a trip scheduled in early 2020 to go measure SSSB and prepare the airplane for moving. C-19 shut the whole thing down. That said, I don't know where SSSB was going once it arrived in DC. My guess is that it will go through a process similar to Flak Bait and it will be years before it goes on display. While this is frustrating, the guiding principle seems to be that, once it's on display, it won't get any attention for at least 100 years, so they are unlikely to simply assemble SSSB and display it as-is.

In Dayton, employees are fewer in number than I realized and the budget is much smaller than I ever thought possible. Assuming that I was given good info, the bulk of Memphis Belle was funded with donations from Boeing and other private sources. So, the reality, in my mind, is that something on the scale of Swoose will require a massive cash influx to tackle and an understanding that work on everything else will stop in the meantime, just as it did for Belle ... there are simply not enough employees to do more than one thing at a time.

Another aspect is project depth. There's a press release where they discuss scratch-fabrication of heaters for Belle - the units are out in the wing and will never be seen. No doubt, that's how an accurate restoration is done, but, given funding & time constraints, is that the best answer? I don't know.

The final piece of the puzzle is political attitude. I won't get into it, but you can imagine that leadership from way up, all the way down, sets priorities and pace. Absent some sort of national campaign (like Humane Society or Wounded Warriors) or a cash influx from someone like Elon Musk, I wouldn't expect any big changes.

Ken

[StangStung]

I am equally disappointed and share some of the same frustrations. From working on another project recently, I do have some insight. "My opinion only".

The NASM folks had a trip scheduled in early 2020 to go measure SSSB and prepare the airplane for moving. C-19 shut the whole thing down. That said, I don't know where SSSB was going once it arrived in DC. My guess is that it will go through a process similar to Flak Bait and it will be years before it goes on display. While this is frustrating, the guiding principle seems to be that, once it's on display, it won't get any attention for at least 100 years, so they are unlikely to simply assemble SSSB and display it as-is.

In Dayton, employees are fewer in number than I realized and the budget is much smaller than I ever thought possible. Assuming that I was given good info, the bulk of Memphis Belle was funded with donations from Boeing and other private sources. So, the reality, in my mind, is that something on the scale of Swoose will require a massive cash influx to tackle and an understanding that work on everything else will stop in the meantime, just as it did for Belle ... there are simply not enough employees to do more than one thing at a time.

Another aspect is project depth. There's a press release where they discuss scratch-fabrication of heaters for Belle - the units are out in the wing and will never be seen. No doubt, that's how an accurate restoration is done, but, given funding & time constraints, is that the best answer? I don't know.

The final piece of the puzzle is political attitude. I won't get into it, but you can imagine that leadership from way up, all the way down, sets priorities and pace. Absent some sort of national campaign (like Humane Society or Wounded Warriors) or a cash influx from someone like Elon Musk, I wouldn't expect any big changes.

Ken

Thanks for this insight. As always, it boils down to money. Something like the Belle attracts a lot of it from big pockets. It's good advertising to be associated with such a project. The more esoteric subjects lack the same luster. It's a shame, but we as warbird lovers should know, understand and be used to this by now. Regardless, I'd say whoever has run the NMUSAF over the last 15-20 years or so has done great work. They're light years ahead of where they were when I first visited as a kid in the 80s.

As to the NASM, they take an understandably longer view on things.

Of course, I wish both of them would get back to behind the scenes tours where the true airplane lovers - famous and odd and esoteric birds alike - could be more greatly appreciated.

Anyhoo. In the meantime I'll just enjoy the occasional photo from an insider that pops up here on occasion.

[JOMiller]

OK fellas, I'm missing something with SSSB. When I saw her displayed inside at NMUSAF, she looked pretty darn good. Are you saying she has somehow deteriorated to the point where she needs another restoration? What am I missing?

Help,
Owen

[17f]

OK fellas, I'm missing something with SSSB. When I saw her displayed inside at NMUSAF, she looked pretty darn good. Are you saying she has somehow deteriorated to the point where she needs another restoration? What am I missing?

Help,
Owen

I doubt SSSB has deteriorated to a point she needs another resto. Maybe some minor work considering she was flown several times post-restoration. Possibly residual fuel or oil degraded some items.

To what Ken said about the process NASM is doing to Flak Bait: FB is exactly as she was after her last mission. I can see them taking time to conserve and thoroughly document the airframe before reassembly and display. Makes sense. But SSSB was modified quite a bit by the Swedes, the Danes, and then the French. She`s not at all original, nor in bad shape from decades in storage. To me, there isn`t a whole lot of reason to not go on display.

**WARNING! RANT AHEAD!**
Consider that NASM had the Swoose for almost 60 years, and she was never restored or displayed.
NASM had a B-17G from 1981 to 2009. Same as above, then given away to the Mighty Eighth museum.
NASM was supposed to get SSSB when Memphis Belle went on display. We are fast approaching 3 years there - nobody seems real eager to get her.
Factor in organizational politics; attitudes toward American combat aircraft *cough* Enola Gay 1994 *cough*; lack of display space; and the NASM`s love for civilian / foreign / weird / one-off aircraft.

I would bet my next paycheck that SSSB will never go on display at NASM. She will either languish in perpetual storage (the thought of which enrages me); or be stored for a few decades before she is traded away.