B-17 Chuckie
Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:45 am
Are there any plans to put a chin and ball turret on this aircraft? Just curious......
Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:27 pm
I can't say for sure but my guess is that the owners would probably like to add the turrets, but acquiring the turret projects themselves along with the $$$ involved is probably the biggest barrier.
I know from personal experience that the main issue is not even $$$...it's the lack of parts. Acquiring turret parts is extremely difficult...let alone an entire turret project worth salvaging. The few chin turrets I've seen out there look as though somebody dropped them from a 5 story building. Ball turret shell parts are non-existant which is why some of the restored B-17's & B-24's have been forced to use aluminum recastings and even fiberglass replicas. A classic example of this is Fuddy Duddy's ball turret which is simply half of a ball turret bolted to the underside of the aircraft. If I'm not mistaken I think it's also made out of fiberglass.
Don Brooks still has a complete recast Ball Turret for sale (he found an original somewhere for one of his aircraft) with about 80% of the internal parts. The price tag is a whopping $24,000!!!!
John
I know from personal experience that the main issue is not even $$$...it's the lack of parts. Acquiring turret parts is extremely difficult...let alone an entire turret project worth salvaging. The few chin turrets I've seen out there look as though somebody dropped them from a 5 story building. Ball turret shell parts are non-existant which is why some of the restored B-17's & B-24's have been forced to use aluminum recastings and even fiberglass replicas. A classic example of this is Fuddy Duddy's ball turret which is simply half of a ball turret bolted to the underside of the aircraft. If I'm not mistaken I think it's also made out of fiberglass.
Don Brooks still has a complete recast Ball Turret for sale (he found an original somewhere for one of his aircraft) with about 80% of the internal parts. The price tag is a whopping $24,000!!!!
John
Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:36 pm
If I'm not mistaken, I believe "Fuddy Duddy's" half turret was one of the ones they used in Tora, Tora, Tora. I think they cut a bunch in half and bolted them on the firebomber B-17's that went to Hawaii for the film.
Jerry
Jerry
Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:48 pm
Jerry,
I believe your right...I heard about this happening as well. It's a darn shame they had to butcher these turrets for a quick-fix. But then again the movie industry has been doing that to warbirds for years.
John
I believe your right...I heard about this happening as well. It's a darn shame they had to butcher these turrets for a quick-fix. But then again the movie industry has been doing that to warbirds for years.
John
Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:15 pm
Are there any pictures of one of these Fake turrets or one thats been cut in half?
half turrents
Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:48 pm
You are currect the half-turrents were used in Tora Tora Tora. They belonged to Globe air and were cut in half for the movie. They use to lay around the large Globe air bone yard in Mesa for years. When I was a kid in the early 70's we use to use them for rock throwing practice. Last time I remember seeing them there were two halves in the back of a pickup truck either just prior or after the auction in the 80's. It is sad that they were cut up yet at the same time if it wasn't for companies such as Globe air we wouldn't have many 17's to admire today.
Re: half turrents
Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:32 am
jbloomer2 wrote: It is sad that they were cut up yet at the same time if it wasn't for companies such as Globe air we wouldn't have many 17's to admire today.
You're correct, we can thank some of these companies like Globe Air for helping save warbirds from the scrapper and putting them into usefull service until the warbird community could step in. I was referring to the movie industry like Disney that would come in and cut up old aircraft for movies like "Last Flight Noah's Ark". If I'm not mistaken didn't they damage quite a few of the B-29 hulks sitting outside of China Lake?
John
Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:59 am
APG85 wrote:Are there any pictures of one of these Fake turrets or one thats been cut in half?
This should give you an idea of what one looks like. This is the "Fuddy Duddy" ball turret.
Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:06 pm
Somewhere out there, there's a barn full of ball turrets...........
Wishful thinking.......
(I cringe looking at a picture of a ball turret cut in half
).
Wishful thinking.......
(I cringe looking at a picture of a ball turret cut in half
).
Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:28 pm
APG85 wrote:Somewhere out there, there's a barn full of ball turrets...........
Wishful thinking.......
(I cringe looking at a picture of a ball turret cut in half
I keep telling myself that same thing...one of these days somebody will contact me with the news of a newly discovered treasure trove of ball turret parts. Needless to say I'm not holding my breath!!!
Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:07 pm
Here are another two shots of Fuddy Duddy's half ball turret. If I can remember correctly there wasn't much of a mid-upper either.
Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:46 pm
Wouldn't ball turrets have been historically inaccurate for Tora! Tora! Tora! anyway? I didn't think the B-17s of that era would have had a full turret to begin with.
Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:08 pm
Here's an interesting side note involving the "half" ball turret on "Fuddy Duddy".
I was involved with the production of the late Jeff Ethell's "Roaring Glory Warbirds" series back in 1992. Prior to and during the 1992 Geneseo Air Show, we were using "Fuddy Duddy" as the subject of the B-17 Volume. When it came time to shoot the re-enactment parts with the vintage crewmen at their stations, I mentioned to Jeff that "Fuddy Duddy" didn't have a working top or ball turret and what should we do to get around the problem.
Just at that moment, "Nine-O-Nine" taxied up and the crew got out. I asked my long time pal, Phil Haskell, who ran the Collings Foundation's barnstorming tours, if we could use the interior for shooting while they went over to sign in at the show. Permission granted and we shot "Nine-O-Nine's" interior as a stand-in for "Fuddy Duddy's" ball & top turrets, waist guns and radio room. All the other cockpit and bombadier position shots were done in "Fuddy".
I haven't heard many people mention that they noticed the "switch", but if you own a copy, take another look. A little "Hollywood Magic" granted "Fuddy Duddy" complete turrets for a short time!
Just a fun little note!
Blue skies,
Jerry
PS: In case anyone was wondering, I'm the bombadier in the B-17 video and the pilot in the B-25 video that features "Panchito"!
I was involved with the production of the late Jeff Ethell's "Roaring Glory Warbirds" series back in 1992. Prior to and during the 1992 Geneseo Air Show, we were using "Fuddy Duddy" as the subject of the B-17 Volume. When it came time to shoot the re-enactment parts with the vintage crewmen at their stations, I mentioned to Jeff that "Fuddy Duddy" didn't have a working top or ball turret and what should we do to get around the problem.
Just at that moment, "Nine-O-Nine" taxied up and the crew got out. I asked my long time pal, Phil Haskell, who ran the Collings Foundation's barnstorming tours, if we could use the interior for shooting while they went over to sign in at the show. Permission granted and we shot "Nine-O-Nine's" interior as a stand-in for "Fuddy Duddy's" ball & top turrets, waist guns and radio room. All the other cockpit and bombadier position shots were done in "Fuddy".
I haven't heard many people mention that they noticed the "switch", but if you own a copy, take another look. A little "Hollywood Magic" granted "Fuddy Duddy" complete turrets for a short time!
Just a fun little note!
Blue skies,
Jerry
PS: In case anyone was wondering, I'm the bombadier in the B-17 video and the pilot in the B-25 video that features "Panchito"!
B-17s and Ball Turrets
Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:34 pm
Actually, the B-17E was in production at the time of Pearl Harbor.
Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:56 pm
Mike,
Thanks for the close-up pics of Fuddy Duddy's half ball turret. The first time I toured the inside of her a few years back I was really bummed to find the inside floor where the ball is located was covered over with plywood. I was expecting to find the trunnion support assembly and hanger tubing assembly but was shocked to find nothing. After taking a closer exterior inspection of the turret if finally dawned on me that it was purely a cosmetic turret. While disappointed, I will say that you wouldn't know the difference when viewing it from a distance. I guess half of a ball is still better than no ball!
John
Thanks for the close-up pics of Fuddy Duddy's half ball turret. The first time I toured the inside of her a few years back I was really bummed to find the inside floor where the ball is located was covered over with plywood. I was expecting to find the trunnion support assembly and hanger tubing assembly but was shocked to find nothing. After taking a closer exterior inspection of the turret if finally dawned on me that it was purely a cosmetic turret. While disappointed, I will say that you wouldn't know the difference when viewing it from a distance. I guess half of a ball is still better than no ball!
John