Mystery B-17G Tanker

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:31 pm

This was taken at Redmond, OR in the mid 60s.
Any clues???????????

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:45 pm

I'd guess Butler's N5237V.

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:45 pm

....markings look like N5237V to me....

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:01 pm

I think there both different aircraft.

If you look closely in the first photo posted, the number one engine has red cowling(actually all the cowlings are red).

But in the second photo only the number 2 engine has a red cowl. Can you see this?

Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:32 am

Probably a lot of maintenance on the cowl flaps in 15 years.

Maybe they didn't get repainted.

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:37 pm

The airplane in the picture is definitely N5237V (a.k.a. Tanker 65 and Tanker F15).Cal Butler bought this former PB-1W (Buno.77233) at an auction of surplus Navy aircraft in the early 1960's.Unfortunately,I don't have the date handy.He also bought 4 Gumman F7F-3's,presumably at the same time.All of these airplanes still exist.
The Federal airtanker numbering system changed from regional letter codes and locally assigned numbers to a national numbering system in 1974.N5237V had been a Forest Service Region 6 (Oregon and Washington) airplane,which is where the "F" came from in F15.
It became Tanker 65 with the change as TBM Inc. and its subsidiary Butler Aircraft were assigned a block of tanker numbers that included 60-69.
The main reason for the change was because longer range and faster tankers came into service in the 70's and two or more tankers might show up over a long lasting major fire that had the same tanker number.Previously,with TBM's,PBY's,A-26's and similar aircraft,it was unusual for tankers to cross regional borders.I know that at least two Tanker 15's ended up over a fire near Porterville,Ca. in 1973 or "74.
I flew both as pilot and co-pilot in T65 between 1975 and 1982 for a total of 750 hours on various Fed and CDF contracts.Incidentally,the original AAF s/n for this airplane was 44-83868 and it is a B-17-95DL.This is the B-17 that is on display in the RAF Museum in England.I'm sure that Air Commodore Ron Dick could supply the details of the ferry flight across the Atlantic.
I'm currently flying Tanker 62 (N401US),a DC-7 for Butler Aircraft from Medford,Or. on a contract with the ODF (Oregon Department of Forestry).

Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:54 pm

Thanks much for the info Larry!
Did you know the Byers brother by chance. Jim flew A-26s and
the bug sprayer A-24s for Holly Fletcher at Aero Flite while Bill
flew PBYs and TBMs out of WA, ID and possibly E. OR?
See an week old thread showing Jim flying one of the A-26s.

Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:14 pm

there is a brief history and some photos of this plane in the book THE FINAL CUT. the story is on pages 149/150. cheers sim.

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:28 pm

The books Final Cut and B-17 In Blue also: N5237V was PB-1W BuNo 77233 serving primarily with VX-4 and VW-2 until 1956; sold by the Navy to American Compressed Steel Corp. (one of 13) on 12/2/57; to Ashland Corp. of Tucson on 2/26/60; to Marson Equipment and Salvage on 7/7/60; to Aero Union (with N5233V) on 9/27/61; to Butler on 12/28/61; to TBM Inc. on 2/1/83; to the USAF and then RAF shortly afterwards.

Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:46 pm

Several of these former Douglas G-95DLs still exist (off the top of my head):

44-83868 - RAF Museum, Hendon, as mentioned above. On her way to England in the early 80s or thereabouts, she stopped in at Barksdale to see her sister ship, 884 (see info below). I've got pics from the tower buried in my albums. They rolled a G-model BUF by the two Forts for some pics -- three Boeing antiques in the same shot! What a deal!

44-83872 - CAF's Texas Raiders

44-83884 - ex-B-17G-95-DL; ex-PB-1W; ex-Aero Union fire bomber. Now static at Barksdale AFB, La's museum. 884 rolled out in July 1945 and was the second-to-the-last B-17G Douglas built. See Final Cut for a shot of her in her short-lived Air Force G-model arrangement.

Wade

Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:39 am

No,I never met the Byers brothers.I probably got to Oregon too late.The first time that I got to Redmond was in 1976 when I was flying as c/p to Ralph Rensink in T65.We were between bases on a split contract with home bases of Ft.Smith,Ar. and Burns,Or. Most of the flying that we actually ended up with was out of Wier's Cave,Va. and Hibbing,Mn. that season.I got my tanker business start in Goleta (Santa Barbara) in 1963 as a 15 year old kid who was allowed to be the tanker base "Gofer".During fire busts,I mixed borate (the last year it was used in Region 5),loaded tankers,washed them and handed wrenches to the mechanics.I even got paid sometimes.What a deal!

Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:17 pm

Larry Kraus wrote:No,I never met the Byers brothers.I probably got to Oregon too late.The first time that I got to Redmond was in 1976 when I was flying as c/p to Ralph Rensink in T65.We were between bases on a split contract with home bases of Ft.Smith,Ar. and Burns,Or. Most of the flying that we actually ended up with was out of Wier's Cave,Va. and Hibbing,Mn. that season.I got my tanker business start in Goleta (Santa Barbara) in 1963 as a 15 year old kid who was allowed to be the tanker base "Gofer".During fire busts,I mixed borate (the last year it was used in Region 5),loaded tankers,washed them and handed wrenches to the mechanics.I even got paid sometimes.What a deal!

Is that the Ralph Rensink of Idaho who owned a pair of P-51Ds in the early 60s? And do you know if he's still around?

T J

Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:36 pm

Yes,that's the same Ralph Rensink.I've lost track of him,though.The last time that I saw him was at least 10 years ago in Redmond.He flew in with his son in their just completed Glas Air kit airplane and was building a house on one of the San Juan Islands in the Puget Sound area.Lopez Island,I think.Ralph was also teaching his son to fly.At that time,his home was in Battleground,Wa.

Mystery B-17G Tanker