Great water bomber picture from Greece
Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:53 am
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3842331/?GT1=8307
July 20-27th slide show picture #3
Two questions:
1) What kind of plane is that? Any websites I can look at of this type?
2) Do planes like this ever do "bombing" displays at Oshkosh, Thunder or for our mates across the pond Legends? They are warbirds of a different type granted. But boy would I like to see such a display without having my house at stake. Any airshow ever do this?
July 20-27th slide show picture #3
Two questions:
1) What kind of plane is that? Any websites I can look at of this type?
2) Do planes like this ever do "bombing" displays at Oshkosh, Thunder or for our mates across the pond Legends? They are warbirds of a different type granted. But boy would I like to see such a display without having my house at stake. Any airshow ever do this?
Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:00 pm
Bombardier 415
Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:13 pm
Ive seen it on a smaller scale at several different airshows. ..It was pretty cool to fill them up with water and show off their skills.
Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:26 pm
Here in western Canada I've seen DC-6's, Trackers, Martin Mars and various helos do drops at airshows.
Below photo is from the Abbotsford Airshow website
Brian...
Below photo is from the Abbotsford Airshow website
Brian...
Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:30 pm
I've seen a UH-1 and a C-130 but I'd really love to see a Martin Mars drop, ok, so I just want to see a Martin Mars and I could care less if it only flys by. That would be great.
Tim
Tim
Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:43 pm
A few of a superbly flown Italian CL.415 from the Malta airshow last September.
Enjoy......
Enjoy......
Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:29 pm
Why is the Italian 415 doing vertical manoeuvers?
Anyhoo, over here, when one of our 415 goes to an airshow, they usually drop quite a lot of water during their act.
Anyhoo, over here, when one of our 415 goes to an airshow, they usually drop quite a lot of water during their act.
Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:33 pm
Ollie wrote:Why is the Italian 415 doing vertical manoeuvers?
Because it's an airshow!
Ollie wrote:Anyhoo, over here, when one of our 415 goes to an airshow, they usually drop quite a lot of water during their act.
This one did about 5 or 6 water drops per display, and two displays per day. It helps being on an island, where it can just drop down into the nearby bay to refill the tanks between drops.
Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:09 pm
I agree it is at an airshow, but I don't agree with doing vertical stuff with a 415.
Over here they drop coloured water. Next show I'm going to, the 415 will spend the week-end moored on a lake over which the show takes place.
Over here they drop coloured water. Next show I'm going to, the 415 will spend the week-end moored on a lake over which the show takes place.
Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:17 pm
This is from a thread awhile back, & I think this is in reference to the same pics.
B25PBYGUY
Aircraftsman 1st Class
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Franklin, Tennessee USA
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly, I have been only a lurker here, but find myself posting a couple of times here today on a couple of topics. I couldnt let this one go by. I'm type rated in both the CL-215 and CL-415 (depicted here).
Indeed, both airframes are stressed to +3.25G and a -1.0G with flaps extended to 15deg. Otherwise, 3.0G and a -1.0G. Flaps 15 are used for scooping and dropping. Normal drop speed is 110 to 115 kts. 129kts is the water door limiting speed
My instructor in the 215 (Doug Adkins, the original experimental test pilot for both airframes) told me he did once loop a CL-215 with flaps at 15deg.
I dont recall him releasing 6 tons of water concurrently. Thats 6.75 tons in the 415.
Both the 215, and 415, due to their short coupling (read, moment arm) between the area of the velocity of water being released(the surrounding air is accellerated creating a lower static pressure), and the horizontal stab which produces negative lift, does cause a significant pitch up when the load is released. The pilot adds forward stick pressure to minimize this tendency.
Looking at these photos, and the momentum of the water released, leads me to suspect this is not a loop or Immelman. But, it could be done.
I used to execute 3.25g loops (not in a waterbomber) on a regular basis.
The 1/2 roll on top however would be challenging in a 215/415 due to the large wing damping provided for by its planform. The 415 does sport hydraulically boosted flight controls whereas the 215 is cabled.
Its also interesting to recall the Italians have had several fatal crashes with Waterbombers. These are both fine airplanes, and with above ground water available, unbeatable in fire suppression.
I hope this insight is helpful. Now back to flying the B-17....
===============================================
B25PBYGUY
Aircraftsman 1st Class
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Franklin, Tennessee USA
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly, I have been only a lurker here, but find myself posting a couple of times here today on a couple of topics. I couldnt let this one go by. I'm type rated in both the CL-215 and CL-415 (depicted here).
Indeed, both airframes are stressed to +3.25G and a -1.0G with flaps extended to 15deg. Otherwise, 3.0G and a -1.0G. Flaps 15 are used for scooping and dropping. Normal drop speed is 110 to 115 kts. 129kts is the water door limiting speed
My instructor in the 215 (Doug Adkins, the original experimental test pilot for both airframes) told me he did once loop a CL-215 with flaps at 15deg.
I dont recall him releasing 6 tons of water concurrently. Thats 6.75 tons in the 415.
Both the 215, and 415, due to their short coupling (read, moment arm) between the area of the velocity of water being released(the surrounding air is accellerated creating a lower static pressure), and the horizontal stab which produces negative lift, does cause a significant pitch up when the load is released. The pilot adds forward stick pressure to minimize this tendency.
Looking at these photos, and the momentum of the water released, leads me to suspect this is not a loop or Immelman. But, it could be done.
I used to execute 3.25g loops (not in a waterbomber) on a regular basis.
The 1/2 roll on top however would be challenging in a 215/415 due to the large wing damping provided for by its planform. The 415 does sport hydraulically boosted flight controls whereas the 215 is cabled.
Its also interesting to recall the Italians have had several fatal crashes with Waterbombers. These are both fine airplanes, and with above ground water available, unbeatable in fire suppression.
I hope this insight is helpful. Now back to flying the B-17....
===============================================
Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:17 pm
Ollie wrote:Next show I'm going to, the 415 will spend the week-end moored on a lake over which the show takes place.
Where is that?
Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:36 pm
Lac-à-la-tortue Mikey-Mike!
Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:16 pm
TimAPNY wrote:but I'd really love to see a Martin Mars drop, ok, so I just want to see a Martin Mars and I could care less if it only flys by. That would be great.
Tim
Now there's an idea...the Mars at Oshkosh. Expecting any fires out that way? Yeeech! The fuel bill would be astronomical!
Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:18 am
"Now there's an idea...the Mars at Oshkosh. Expecting any fires out that way?"
Like the WWF, The Mars Vs the 747 Evergreen Tanker, Battle of the Water Bombers!
Lynn
Like the WWF, The Mars Vs the 747 Evergreen Tanker, Battle of the Water Bombers!
Lynn