[BAD/OLD PIC QUIZ] P-51erschmitt

[k5083]

You guys did a great job helping me identify my late friend Dick's P-40 pics and I hope you enjoyed seeing them. I'll be mixing up the types more for a while. First up:





The label says, "NA P-51 bogus German markings for movie" (well, duh) and a date that is either 1966 or 1968. The location is no mystery. So: anyone know which P-51 this is, and for bonus points, which movie(s) it appeared in looking like this?

August

[Jerry O'Neill]

I don't know which Mustang it is, but I'd venture to guess that it was for the "Combat" TV show, as they used a P-51 a couple of times for a German fighter.
Just a shot in the dark.
Jerry

[Michel Lemieux]

Reminds me of the opposite.....

Used for the making of Patton....

Sorry could not resist )

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=609&highlight=

[Jerry O'Neill]

Did those Buchon's ever fly in that configuration?
I asked the question a few weeks ago, but it's buried now with no responses.
Jerry

[John L. Dienst]

August:

Yesterday, while sorting through my extensive photographic collection of North American P-51 Mustangs, I believe I discovered the identity of the aircraft in question. First of all, one must take into account the Mustang's fixed tail wheel. Considering the time frame and location of the photograph (Chino, California), I think it it safe to assume that the Mustang served with the Air National Guard before it was sold surplus into civilian hands. Second of all, more importantly, please note the location of the aircraft's Bendix ADF loop (under the radiator scoop). For your information, the location of the antenna is quite rare on civilian Mustangs. In fact, I have photographic evidence of this sort of installation on only two aircraft. One of the Mustangs is a former RCAF bird, so that one's out. The other Mustang is N5451V 44-74204 that last saw service with the 169th FS Illinois ANG. Therefore, through a process of elimination, I believe this is the identity of the so-called P-51erschmitt. I hope that this helps. (Is there anyway that you can send to me high resolution scans of the photographs you have? Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. THANK YOU!

Sincerely,

John L. Dienst
Personal E-mail Address: Dienst@hotmail.com

[k5083]

John, thanks very much for your research and careful thought about this one. I am curious as to your view of the significance of the fixed tail wheel. I assumed it was just locked down as part of the Messerschmitt disguise.

Your deductions based on the ADF loop location are fascinating and I'm certainly in no position to disagree! In fact, based on your conjecture, I think I have found some direct evidence that you are correct.

Here is a full-res detail of one of the above pics. Note the civil paint scheme visible under the nose where the movie paint has worn off.



Here is the Warbird Registry's pic of 44-74204 in the 1960s:



Looks like it could be the same paint scheme.

High resolution scans -- yes, these are 6x9cm negatives and my scans are about 8000 pixels wide, but as the TIF file size exceeds 140 Megs for each, they won't be easy to e-mail. I'll email you and we'll work something out.

August

[Xrayist]

I really enjoyed the pics....but did anyone else notice the irony of making Mustangs look like Messerschmitts and then making Messerscmitts look like Mustangs!?

[k5083]

I really enjoyed the pics....but did anyone else notice the irony of making Mustangs look like Messerschmitts and then making Messerscmitts look like Mustangs!?

Yes, especially as rare as Buchons are now relative to Mustangs. It made me think of dressing up genuine Zeros to play T-6s in the movies.

August

[DiggerWW2]

They also used "Musterschmitts" in the 1948 Technicolor Classic "FIGHTER SQUADRON". One of My all time favorite AAF films!! Here's a few photos & a "Musterschmitt" Shot:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... 057838.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... 8269e6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... 69d57c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... ADRON3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... 012483.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... ADRON5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... ADRON6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... 73f8c1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... a370cc.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/ ... e15699.jpg

Digger

[retroaviation]

Pretty darn clever how they did that "gear up" P-47.

[ww2John]

to e-mail large files, try a service like...

http://www.yousendit.com/

It is how I ship my PowerPoint presentations around and works very well.

[tom d. friedman]

sacrilege!!!!!!! putting those phoney baloney markings on opposite planes!! !

[bdk]

Are you sure that is in Chino? The truck says "Movieland of the Air" on the back. While it certainly could have driven to Chino, I can't figure out where at Chino that photo would have been taken, although I've only been hanging around there for the last 25 years so that was before my time. I suspect Orange County.

Considering the time frame and location of the photograph (Chino, California)...

[John L. Dienst]

August:

In regards to your question about the fixed tail wheel on this particular aircraft, for your information, after several tail wheel failures, in 1953 the United States Air Force was forced to issue a technical order that required all of the Air National Guard F-51's (F-51D/F-51H) tail wheels to be fixed in the down position.

One last thing before I close, after further examination of the photographs in question, I think the photos were taken at the Movieland of the Air Museum in Orange County, California. I stand corrected!

John L. Dienst

[k5083]

Yes, it was evident from the assortment of aircraft in the compound that this was at OC. That is fascinating about the tailwheels. Was the issue with the tailwheel ever figured out? It doesn't appear to plague modern warbird operators.

August