Swamp Ghost ~ Pause For Thought

[bomberflight]

I'm not suprised by the following news ~ Sad .... but not suprised

http://www.thenational.com.pg/091406/nation3.htm

PAC: Seize Swamp Ghost

By JULIA DAIA BORE
THE parliamentary Public Accounts Committee (PAC) yesterday told the National Museum and Art Gallery management that it had “no power” to sell the World War II aircraft – the B-17 E Flying Fortress dubbed the Swamp Ghost, or any war surplus materials to overseas buyers.
The PAC said the war relics remained the rightful property of the PNG Government and its people; and that it could only be sold following normal Public Finance (Management) Act and/or by the financial instructions promulgated thereon.
In saying this, the PAC yesterday ordered that the Swamp Ghost be immediately seized by the State and protected and preserved until a decision can be made as to its future.
“The State (of PNG) still owns the Swamp Ghost and no effective contract of sale, salvage, removal or export has been formed nor could the museum do so,” PAC acting chairman Malcolm Smith-Kela said.
“The museum cannot enter into contracts to bind the State. The museum is a corporation in its own right; but it is not an agent or representative of the State, particularly in respect to the sale, salvage, removal or export of State-owned property,” he said.
He said any purported contract between foreign buyers, the Military Aircraft Restoration Corporation (MARC) and the PNG National Museum and Art Gallery to remove the Swamp Ghost aircraft “was illegal, unenforceable and invalid”.
He told acting museum director Simon Puraituk that “as custodian of WWII aircraft, war surpluses and our artefacts, I’m dismayed that you have dealt in them in such a shabby way”.
“The museum is looking after all these heritages, and what we are seeing right now is that the war relics and indigenous artefacts are being disposed of in a most dubious manner.
“The committee has very carefully considered a large number of documents placed before it in relation to the dealing and export of the Swamp Ghost.
“The committee is of the view that there has been a concerted attempt to illegally obtain State property by virtually any representation, promise or undertaking.”

*************************************************************

Now collectively pause for a moment and reflect on how this turn of events could be seen in a positive way........

We all stop fixating on one airplane recovery ( granted it is a B-17 )
and reflect on those projects that do need our help right now and could
harness some of that pent up energy ( and cash probably )

Here's a few projects that spring to mind !

Gary Austin and the CAF's B-29 Fifi ~ being restored TO FLY

B-17G ~ Thunderbird ~ being restored TO FLY

B-17G ~ Desert Rat ~ being restored TO FLY

What about rescuing the Lacey Lad / Gas Sation B-17 and the AMVETs Tulare one too ????

There must be other worthy projects out there too ??????????

Blue Skies

[FlyingFortB17]

Don't forget that the Planes of Fame museum's B-17G is being restored to flyable status. http://www.planesoffame.org/restorations.php?aircraft=b17flyingfortress

[bomberflight]

YAY ~ Good call on that one too ! See Its working already !

I also made a slip in my original mail ~ I wrote Thunderbird and meant to say Texas Raiders .....

[TimAPNY]

It is great too see so many B-17s in the pipeline to fly

but on Swamp Ghost... Everything has a price! I still hold out hope

Tim

[Bill Greenwood]

It seems like their bureaucrats are the same as ours except theirs use better English. There is never a shortage of people that are not pilots, restorers, or owners, who can tell others how not to do it. They don't own anything, can't fly anything (usually expert at talking on the radio), but they are dedicated to making obstacles for someone else. Could someone briefly explain the specifics as I'm not familar with this plane?

[TimAPNY]

Bill
Here is a link to one of the many threads on Swamp Ghost.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... wamp+ghost

I can't find the one that broke the news here but the above should fill in some details.

There is also a write up in a "Classic Wings" issuie.

Here is some more info and a different view on the subject.
http://www.theswampghost.com/

Tim

[ww2John]

Desert Rat is an "E" model (it was also an XC-108 model in one incarnation), with a Great Team plugging away every week to bring that Warbird back to the air from a hacked up basket case.

Also, the B17G project in Urbana, OH being restored to flight by the Schiffer Brothers and another great group of volunteers, with guidance by Tom Reilly. (Not to mention the other B17 Project Mr. Reilly is working on for Don Brooks in GA.)

...and, some other B17 projects in active restoration...

Memphis Belle at NMUSAF & the "E" model in the Flying Heritage Collection (Mr. Paul Allen).

On the B29 front, in addition to FiFi, Doc is in active restoration to flying status.

Someone mentioned Lacey's Lady (Milwaukie, OR), a seemingly stalled restoration to static. Another story for another time, I suppose.

But I truly wish something could be done to protect & preserve Preston's Pride (Tulare, CA) before yet another truck totally destroys it.

Should we include in this discussion the B17-F The Swoose at NASM? Or, the other G model in storage for NASM at Dulles (it was flying when it arrived there, years ago)?

Plenty of active or potential Warbird heavy iron restoration to flight projects to go around and all worthy of our support and our $$.

[FlyingFortB17]

The lore about Swamp Ghost, I think, wasn't necessarily that it was a B-17. It was a B-17 that was a total time machine from the past. It is so complete, unlike the piles of corroded aluminum you'll find in the jungle or at the bottom of the sea.

[Mark_Pilkington]

It seems this is going to impact more than just Swamp Ghost being siezed, it appears a number of recent recoveries are being investigated.

http://www.thenational.com.pg/091406/nation3.htm

News
Thursday 14th September , 2006


Swamp Ghost sale halted

THE Public Accounts Committee has disallowed the contract for the sale, salvage or export of the controversial Swamp Ghost aircraft. The PAC yesterday, in its interim findings, emphasised the Swamp Ghost is still the property of the State of Papua New Guinea and the National Museum and Arts Gallery is not an agent or a representative of the state to sell, salvage, remove or export state-owned property as the museum has no power to sell the Swamp Ghost or War Surplus material. The committee found the actions of the museum in selling the Swamp ghost as unlawful. The committee identified about 82 other aircraft or aircraft parts that have been exported from PNG. A large number of aircraft have been traced to private hands, museums and collectors and the committee found there has been an ongoing international trade in war surplus material illegally obtained and exported from PNG. The committee intends to refer transactions and salvagers and their agents or vendors who sell materials on the open market to the Royal Papua New Guinea Police Force, Foreign Police Forces and International Law Enforcement Agencies Some of those materials have been sold on the open market by salvagers The committee also found there were four major salvages that had been operating in the country with the assistance of the National Museum, although the museum had no power at all to action or permit salvage, removal or export of war surplus materials pursuant to the War Surplus Materials Act. The committee added that there were two and possibly three salvors operating in the country that have engaged in unlawful conduct while dealing with state property or selling it for their own profit.

regards

Mark Pilkington

[Mark_Pilkington]

http://pidp.eastwestcenter.org/pireport/2006/September/09-14-19.htm

RECOVERY OF U.S. WWII AIRCRAFT IN PNG QUESTIONED

By Isaac Nicholas
PORT MORESBY, Papua New Guinea (The National, Sept. 13) - An aircraft war wreck was salvaged and shipped out of the country, allegedly using forged documents engineered by the acting director of the National Museum and Art Gallery, Simon Poraituk.

The wreck was believed to have been removed around July despite the National Museum Board of Trustee’s "black ban" on any dealings with salvaging company 75th Squadron Museum.

[PIR editor’s note: According to PIR archives, The World War II bomber aircraft nicknamed the "Swamp Ghost" was to be sent to the United States to be reconstructed and restored to its original form. Under an agreement reached in June, the aircraft was to be returned "when Papua New Guinea finally has the capacity to house and care for all its war materials."]

Board member Andrew Abel made the allegations during the Public Accounts Committee inquiry into the National Museum and Art Gallery yesterday.

Mr. Abel said the board meeting on July 6 had banned all dealings with salvaging companies, including the 75th Squadron.

He also alleged that a lot of board documents, including memorandum of agreements, have been going out without the board’s approval or knowledge.

"Poraituk engineered a MOA and, after this was rectified by the board chairman, he concocted to fraudulent MOA," Abel claimed.

He said with the fraud document in hand, the 75th Squadron Museum went to Wewak and salvaged an aircraft at St. John in Siring.

He said this angered local landowners who signed a letter and sent it through to the National Museum Board of Trustees. He claimed that Poraituk and his management team had worked in isolation with the Board of Trustees.

Abel said the management had sidelined himself, and two other board members Peter Loko and Maria Kopkop.

The accusations brought the ire of Poraituk, who accused Mr. Abal and certain board members of collaborating to discredit him and his management.

"Andrew Abel is working against my management."

Poraituk also attacked the creation of sub-committees within the board, claiming it was illegal and should get a full 13-member board approval.

Another museum officer Mark Katakum, curator of modern history, claimed that he was threatened and forced to sign documents.

Mr. Katakum alleged that a consultant and agent of Aero Archeology Museum, Robert Greinert, had accused him of receiving bribes and forging an export permit for the 75th Squadron.

Acting PAC chairman Dr. Bob Danaya said there was a "web of influence wielded by the 75th Squadron, Greinert and Fred Hagan.

"War surplus is clearly a big business, and how these people were ever allowed to plunder State property is beyond comprehension. It’s a disgrace," Danaya said.

It also emerged that the salvaging companies involved were operating illegally, and were not registered with the Investment Promotion Authority (IPA).

IPA chief executive officer Ivan Pomaleu also gave evidence and confirmed that none of the companies involved in salvaging wartime wreckage have registered with the authority.

September 14, 2006

The National: www.thenational.com.pg/

Copyright © 2004 The National Online. All Rights Reserved

http://pidp.eastwestcenter.org/pireport/2006/September/09-15-12.htm

PNG STOPS SALE OF WWII ‘SWAMP GHOST’

PORT MORESBY, Papua New Guinea (PNG Post Courier, September 14) – The Papua New Guinea Public Accounts Committee has disallowed the contract for the sale, salvage or export of the controversial Swamp Ghost aircraft.

The Committee yesterday, in its interim findings, emphasized the Swamp Ghost is still the property of the State of Papua New Guinea and the National Museum and Arts Gallery is not an agent or a representative of the state to sell, salvage, remove or export state-owned property as the museum has no power to sell the Swamp Ghost or War Surplus material. The committee found the actions of the museum in selling the Swamp ghost as unlawful and identified about 82 other aircraft or aircraft parts that have been exported from PNG.

A large number of aircraft have been traced to private hands, museums and collectors and the committee found there has been an ongoing international trade in war surplus material illegally obtained and exported from PNG. The committee intends to refer transactions and salvagers and their agents or vendors who sell materials on the open market to the Royal Papua New Guinea Police Force, Foreign Police Forces and International Law Enforcement Agencies.

Some of those materials have been sold on the open market by salvagers The committee also found there were four major salvages that had been operating in the country with the assistance of the National Museum, although the museum had no power at all to action or permit salvage, removal or export of war surplus materials pursuant to the War Surplus Materials Act.

The committee added that there were two and possibly three salvors operating in the country that have engaged in unlawful conduct while dealing with state property or selling it for their own profit.

September 15, 2006

PNG Post Courier Online: www.postcourier.com.pg/

Copyright © 2006 The PNG Post Courier. All Rights Reserved

[HELLDIVERS]

Hi Im sure this is a touchy subject but these a/c have been neglected burned and scrapped for the last 60 plus years. I agree with Bill that a few self proclaimed experts can hinder the preservation of these rare and very endangered artifacts.It seems to me that they are more interested in stopping the folks that care enough to spend the money, time and effort to recover and restore them for future generations vs. raising the funds to properly preserve and display them in a museum of their own.Their track record for preservation has been to drag them from their resting place and display them as is, supported on old 55gal. oil drums and a mixed assortment of used lumber ect.. Time marches on as they continue to decay and return to the elements! All of the a/c that were left there were built and payed for by the countrys that were at war not the small pacific islands were they now rest and many have vanished forever.As for making huge profits off the recovery/restoration of these now neglected,damaged, and decaying hulks is pure bull.Anyone who has taken on a project like these knows you put way more $$$$ and work into them than you will ever recover by selling it.Im sure these folks have good intentions but the facts are they are not going to last much longer sitting in the harsh environment of their pacific resting places.The restoration cost of just one a/c is more than they can handle so why all the up roar?HOW MANY TRUE AVIATION FANS CAN AFFORD THEY TICKET PRICE TO TRAVEL TO A REMOTE ISLAND, HACK THROUGH YEARS OF JUNGLE GROWTH TO SEE THE LAST REMAINS OF A ONCE PROUD WARRIOR?Not me Im afraid that I may end up in the big cheifs pot of stew or my head as decoration on a fence post!!Preserve them now or forget them to time! Thanks Mike

[mjanovec]

Is it too late to return PNG to the Japanese?

[airnutz]

The lore about Swamp Ghost, I think, wasn't necessarily that it was a B-17. It was a B-17 that was a total time machine from the past. It is so complete, unlike the piles of corroded aluminum you'll find in the jungle

Piles of corroded aluminium which are leaving the jungles of PNG every day
bound for the smelters...the government of PNG seems to be powerless in
preventing this practice. Perhaps the core issue of "SG" is a question of
price..remember the caveat attached to the sale, after restoration Swamp Ghost
would be returned to PNG when a suitable museum setting was finally constructed.
Perhaps the government of PNG knows how little WILL they foster in making
their end of the bargain a reality. If I was the purchaser, I'd consider she
would fly here in the states for many years before returning to PNG..if ever!

Question..of all the B-17's mentioned previously, how many of them in PRIVATE
hands are WW2 Battle Veterans?

[Bill Greenwood]

To Mjanovec, Great comment, you scored a direct hit on PNG. Perhaps the Allies should present the PNG govt. with a bill for the cost of liberating them in WWII. I wonder what the vets who fought in these islands think about this. Obviously the locals see this B-17 wreck not as US property, but as a chance to make some money off the deal, and somebody did not grease the right palm. Maybe there is something the locals need, computers for school?, that could make them feel this is a fair exchange.

[Raven]

Bit of a rant...

Not everyone shares 'our' view of history, or of preservation, and there's nothing to say 'our' view is right and 'their' view is wrong. It's easy to get frustrated by the PNG position, but a bit of tact might be in order before sounding off?

Who knows, we might learn something, and if you want the people of PNG to respect your position, kindly show them a little respect in turn.

Is it too late to return PNG to the Japanese?

Please learn some history, before being pointlessly offensive.

Perhaps the Allies should present the PNG govt. with a bill for the cost of liberating them in WWII

Perhaps you'd find an even more justifiable bill coming straight back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea

Netherlands New Guinea and the Australian territories were invaded in 1942 by the Japanese. The Australian territories were put under military administration and were known simply as New Guinea. The highlands, northern and eastern parts of the island became key battlefields in the South West Pacific Theatre of World War II. Papuans often gave vital assistance to the Allies, fighting alongside Australian and US troops, and carrying equipment and injured men across New Guinea.

The people of New Guinea made a huge contribution to the fighting on their island. Unlike the USA (or Britain or Australia) they were never consulted, were invaded, were treated appallingly by the Japanese and in places badly by the Allies, yet helped the Allied cause, in many cases by laying down their lives.

Given that their war was one at arm's length of the enemy, often unarmed combat against an armed and desparate enemy, they didn't even have firearms, let along tanks and aircraft, their bravery was (at least) of a calibre equal to anyone else's. Their women, children and homes were the front line, again, unlike those of the Allies. No they weren't rich, and aren't but that doesn't give us the right to dictate terms.

It wasn't their war, they were never consulted, and the Allies left their junk all over the Islands for half a century, before deciding it was valuable and worth recovering. That's a reasonable 'statute of limitations' for many.

As regards your last remark, Bill, that's a bit more on the money; but like a lot of other places, the governance does not (necessarily) speak for the people.