Don't be ignorant like me. (Paint stripper incident report)
Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:05 am
In the B-24 thread, here on WIX, I have mentioned several times about a paint stripper incident that took place back in December. Although I had intentions to share that episode with everyone, I don't think I have...until now.
The following is from the CAF's Industrial & Ground Safety Newsletter, that Bob Stenevik (CAF's Safety Dude) distributes throughout the CAF. It includes a report I made regarding the incident. I apologize about the small print, but I couldn't figure out how to copy the documents from the PDF file that they were in, so I just printed out the pages and took pictures of them. If anyone would like me to e-mail the pages to them, just send me a PM and I'll do so.
A couple of things to note here...
Y'all often hear me say, "It's better to be lucky than good." Well, that was the case, two fold in this situation. The first bit of luck was that I got here so early to catch this. I recall not feeling well at the time, and was going to just sleep in and not come in until 8 or 9 that morning. I didn't get here as early as I normally do, but got lucky in the fact that I did get here early enough to catch the stripper having the reaction before it burned the hangar down.
The second stroke of luck was the fact that even though this event took place in December, it was warm enough in the hangar that I didn't turn the heaters on. The MSDS for this product states that "a fine mist or fumes from this product are EXTREMELY flammable." (Slightly paraphrased, as I don't have the MSDS in front of me.) The heaters in the hangar are radiant type heaters, and there is one located just above where the drums of stripper were located.
I was lucky here folks. I'm not necessarily proud of the mistakes I made here, but I want everyone to learn about them so that we can hopefully avoid any type of tragedy.
Gary
The following is from the CAF's Industrial & Ground Safety Newsletter, that Bob Stenevik (CAF's Safety Dude) distributes throughout the CAF. It includes a report I made regarding the incident. I apologize about the small print, but I couldn't figure out how to copy the documents from the PDF file that they were in, so I just printed out the pages and took pictures of them. If anyone would like me to e-mail the pages to them, just send me a PM and I'll do so.
A couple of things to note here...
Y'all often hear me say, "It's better to be lucky than good." Well, that was the case, two fold in this situation. The first bit of luck was that I got here so early to catch this. I recall not feeling well at the time, and was going to just sleep in and not come in until 8 or 9 that morning. I didn't get here as early as I normally do, but got lucky in the fact that I did get here early enough to catch the stripper having the reaction before it burned the hangar down.
The second stroke of luck was the fact that even though this event took place in December, it was warm enough in the hangar that I didn't turn the heaters on. The MSDS for this product states that "a fine mist or fumes from this product are EXTREMELY flammable." (Slightly paraphrased, as I don't have the MSDS in front of me.) The heaters in the hangar are radiant type heaters, and there is one located just above where the drums of stripper were located.
I was lucky here folks. I'm not necessarily proud of the mistakes I made here, but I want everyone to learn about them so that we can hopefully avoid any type of tragedy.
Gary
Last edited by retroaviation on Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:19 am
Well, at least nobody got hurt and nothing got destroyed. Did you send the stripping compound back to the manufacturer?
John
John
Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:21 am
Holy cow Gary 
Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:57 am
jpeters wrote: Did you send the stripping compound back to the manufacturer?
John
Not yet, but will soon. I keep forgetting.
Gary
Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:19 am
I don't know how you could forget, Gary............It's not like you've anything else to do all day!
HAHAHA!
HAHAHA!
stripper
Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:15 am
Gary, lots of guy might of kept this to themselves, rather than trying to help others learn from it. Also , you might be due a break, you need to spend a coulple of hours in a cool place with a good beverage checking out some other kind of strippers!
Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:36 am
Wow, glad no one and nothing got hurt, other than the mixer.
Yes, strippers are nothing to mess with or take lightly and so are chemicals!
Thanks for the info.
Yes, strippers are nothing to mess with or take lightly and so are chemicals!
Thanks for the info.
HAZMAT
Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:51 am
Gary participated in the classic hazardous chemical exposure. It is usually someone who is familiar with handling of chemicals, busy doing a task that has the substance in one or two steps of the procedure, HAS read the MSDS, DOESN'T have a new chemical handling SOP and is ALONE. Here are a few ideas that I have about messing with anything new, from personal experience.
It was knocked into my head more than I care to remember, before utilizing a new drug as a paramedic, to know it cold, and to have an algorithm (SOP) for using it, along with when NOT to use it. Use of any chemicals gives you a high chance of exposure to them and their byproducts much the same way as when I give you a shot of something I carry on the ambulance. So in my opinion, you should be just as careful as I am before I give you something. MSDS sheets are great, but they are made to cover the company's a**, not yours. There are a few more steps before you use a chemical. That is your chemical handling SOP. Most of us are used to pouring something we get from Home Depot into whatever is laying conveniently in the garage- dog water dish, old paint can, etc, and using it for whatever the purpose is on the label- paint stripper, lubricant, etc. Sorry, aviators are smarter than that, and should know this procedure.
Preparation. Read instructions for use of the product, read the MSDS, talk to somebody who has used the product before, and identify critical substances which SHOULD NOT be in contact with the substance used.
Checklist- have a clear checklist in your head on what you are doing from purchasing the product, to transporting it, to storing it, using it, first aid for it, and finally disposing of it.
Procedure. I know most are going to groan when I say this, but you shouldn't work alone when you are using chemicals. Being alone signifigantly increases your chances of having an exposure when working with HAZMAT. My flight instructor's son-in-law died at work when he was applying a chemical floor stripper in an improperly ventilated room. His partner was out getting coffee. Also, using chemicals is like driving, flying, or anything else- make sure you have a way out if something goes wrong- window, door, cell phone to call someone to help.
Dispose of the by-products. This is not always covered in the MSDS, because what you have after use of the product is NOT what is in the MSDS.
Safety the process, and safety the area. My wife has been pissed at me many times, because whenever I am welding/stripping/flying, I always shut things down 1/2 hour before I leave, even if I was supposed to leave 10 minutes ago. 30 minutes is a good round bit of time to look for welding sparks, put your hands on disposal cans to see if they are hot, etc. Sometimes this isn't enough, depending on what you are using. But take some time at the end of the procedure before you leave, to check everything.
Top this, Gary. When I was 19 years old, somebody handed me a trip flare during a field exercise. I had read about them in a field manual somewhere, and put it in one of my ammo pouches. After 10 days in the field, little sleep, we had an airlift to a location 75 miles from where I got the flare. I re-discovered that I had it, went to pull it out of the ammo pouch, to show the NCOIC that I had it, and it went off because it came out of it's holder and deployed like a grenade- it's basically a big chunk of magnesium. Burned my hand, flash blindness, and nearly burned down the WWII wooden barracks we were staying in. Then there was the time my WWII jeep caught fire in the hay barn... and floating down the canal on a raft I built from a pallet and two 55 gallon drums... Wrong side of the border, in a country not the biggest admirer of US troops... Been there, done that, don't want the tee shirt...
It was knocked into my head more than I care to remember, before utilizing a new drug as a paramedic, to know it cold, and to have an algorithm (SOP) for using it, along with when NOT to use it. Use of any chemicals gives you a high chance of exposure to them and their byproducts much the same way as when I give you a shot of something I carry on the ambulance. So in my opinion, you should be just as careful as I am before I give you something. MSDS sheets are great, but they are made to cover the company's a**, not yours. There are a few more steps before you use a chemical. That is your chemical handling SOP. Most of us are used to pouring something we get from Home Depot into whatever is laying conveniently in the garage- dog water dish, old paint can, etc, and using it for whatever the purpose is on the label- paint stripper, lubricant, etc. Sorry, aviators are smarter than that, and should know this procedure.
Preparation. Read instructions for use of the product, read the MSDS, talk to somebody who has used the product before, and identify critical substances which SHOULD NOT be in contact with the substance used.
Checklist- have a clear checklist in your head on what you are doing from purchasing the product, to transporting it, to storing it, using it, first aid for it, and finally disposing of it.
Procedure. I know most are going to groan when I say this, but you shouldn't work alone when you are using chemicals. Being alone signifigantly increases your chances of having an exposure when working with HAZMAT. My flight instructor's son-in-law died at work when he was applying a chemical floor stripper in an improperly ventilated room. His partner was out getting coffee. Also, using chemicals is like driving, flying, or anything else- make sure you have a way out if something goes wrong- window, door, cell phone to call someone to help.
Dispose of the by-products. This is not always covered in the MSDS, because what you have after use of the product is NOT what is in the MSDS.
Safety the process, and safety the area. My wife has been pissed at me many times, because whenever I am welding/stripping/flying, I always shut things down 1/2 hour before I leave, even if I was supposed to leave 10 minutes ago. 30 minutes is a good round bit of time to look for welding sparks, put your hands on disposal cans to see if they are hot, etc. Sometimes this isn't enough, depending on what you are using. But take some time at the end of the procedure before you leave, to check everything.
Top this, Gary. When I was 19 years old, somebody handed me a trip flare during a field exercise. I had read about them in a field manual somewhere, and put it in one of my ammo pouches. After 10 days in the field, little sleep, we had an airlift to a location 75 miles from where I got the flare. I re-discovered that I had it, went to pull it out of the ammo pouch, to show the NCOIC that I had it, and it went off because it came out of it's holder and deployed like a grenade- it's basically a big chunk of magnesium. Burned my hand, flash blindness, and nearly burned down the WWII wooden barracks we were staying in. Then there was the time my WWII jeep caught fire in the hay barn... and floating down the canal on a raft I built from a pallet and two 55 gallon drums... Wrong side of the border, in a country not the biggest admirer of US troops... Been there, done that, don't want the tee shirt...
Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:55 am
What Bill said.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Gary!
Thanks for sharing your experience, Gary!
Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:59 am
Wow Gary! That must have been a very frightening experience. Thank goodness you are ok. I hope that you checked your lungs out with your doctor though. Whether you have the time for it or not, you really owe it to yourself to get checked out. Thanks very much for sharing your experience though... it takes a great deal of courage to admit to such a mistake. Take care of yourself, and all the best!
Richard
Richard
Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:01 pm
Gary:
THANKS for posting this so all of us can learn. That's the great strength of WIX, that it is a great big "hangar flying" board. I also echo John's comments above, of not being alone when you use a new chemical for the first time.
THANKS for posting this so all of us can learn. That's the great strength of WIX, that it is a great big "hangar flying" board. I also echo John's comments above, of not being alone when you use a new chemical for the first time.
Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:15 pm
Thanks for the post Gary.
I think you ought to re-title it though. The experience has nothing to do with "dumb" (ie. stupid). It has to do with being "ignorant" (ie. uneducated) as to the results of your actions. I don't think many of us would have done differently, given the MSDS and product instructions. Sure, after the fact, the manufacturer said, "Don't do such and such." Hey, too late to "lock the barn".
Mudge the forgiving
I think you ought to re-title it though. The experience has nothing to do with "dumb" (ie. stupid). It has to do with being "ignorant" (ie. uneducated) as to the results of your actions. I don't think many of us would have done differently, given the MSDS and product instructions. Sure, after the fact, the manufacturer said, "Don't do such and such." Hey, too late to "lock the barn".
Mudge the forgiving
Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:27 pm
Your wish is my command Mudge. Your suggestion has been noted and the title of this thread has been changed.
Gary the ignorant.
Your suggestion has been noted and the title of this thread has been changed.
Gary the ignorant.
Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:14 pm
Hi,
Gary things like this can sometimes have long term effects get checked out asap. We had a guy that was cleaning a aluminum fuel tank and thought it would be good to use muratic acid. Lucky it was outside, he poured a gallon of acid in the tank and left. With in minutes it was pouring white smoke, rocking, belching and was extreamly hot. Fast action with a garden hose got things under control but if it had been inside it may have been a different story.
Thanks Mike
Gary things like this can sometimes have long term effects get checked out asap. We had a guy that was cleaning a aluminum fuel tank and thought it would be good to use muratic acid. Lucky it was outside, he poured a gallon of acid in the tank and left. With in minutes it was pouring white smoke, rocking, belching and was extreamly hot. Fast action with a garden hose got things under control but if it had been inside it may have been a different story.
Thanks Mike