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Will you actively support the campaign to encourage NHC to recover the Battle of Midway Brewster Buffalo?
Poll ended at Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:20 am
I will actively write letters. 75%  75%  [ 21 ]
I do not wish to participate. 25%  25%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 28
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:14 am 
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Forgotten Field wrote:
Paul,
I thought that would come up, and thanks for bringing it up. I think the better way is to pick this more obscure one which has been (according to Rob) identified to NHC as needing recovery, and needing to be placed in restoration due to its history. This is more of a first run/exercise to see what we can do as a group. Getting into the Devastator will only open old wounds, may perchance put the board into an un-winnable mix, and we will certainly run into other interested parties at some point. So let's focus on the F2A and see what we can do there, and then try for bigger fish. It might lead to some progress in other areas, such as the Devastator. But more so, it will give us a chance to collectively do what we can do. How does my logic seem to you? What are your thoughts?


Sir,

With respects, I meant no offense in mentioning the Devastator. I did not realize that "old wounds" as you put it would be opened once more. I agree with you, let us deal with what is in front of us at present. If the Buffalo can be ressurected, then I say go for it.

As to getting a celebrity involved. Paul Krumrei said it best and stole my line here <grin> John Travolta and especially Tom Hanks would be the likely best candidates. Although for sheer historic perspective, one might also consider Steven Spielberg, as Tom Hanks and Mr. Spielberg have collaborated on many historic film endeavors.

Just my thoughts,

Paul


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:34 am 
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I'm onboard and willing to help in any capacity I can.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:49 am 
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What is the actual plan here?

If the Navy has looked into it and are not interested, but they own it and can prevent others recovering it and making money from it, what can anyone do? I assume your aim must be to persuade them to get off their arses and do something, and that WIX will assist them with manpower and fundraising - is that right?

As for celebrity warbird owners, there's also Tom Cruise and even better the wonderful Peter Jackson (who could make a documentary film about the recovery to raise funds and awareness! however, he's pretty busy though.)

Did any celebrities or actors have the misfortune of flying the Buffalo? What about Buffalo pilots themselves. Geoff Fisken of New Zealand flew them at Singapore and became the top ace of the Pacific for the RNZAF. He's still alive. There must be some US aces or known names who flew them.And probably Aussie, RAF and Finnish ones too.

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 Post subject: Buffy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:33 am 
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Well, there were quite a few celebrities who had the "misfortune" to fly the
Buffalo in combat..but most of them died of old age! Must'a had something
to do with the weather, tactics, determination or skill...or a combination
thereof.

I tend to agree with DaveM2,she'll turn to "powder" on lifting. Her time has
passed....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:28 am 
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Dave Homewood wrote:
What is the actual plan here?


As for celebrity warbird owners, there's also Tom Cruise and even better the wonderful Peter Jackson (who could make a documentary film about the recovery to raise funds and awareness! however, he's pretty busy though.)

.


Which one of us will be dismembered and die a really really bloody death so that Peter will agree to make the film?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:23 am 
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I "think" the project is to encourage the Navy to formally study if this thing is there, define if it dead or recoverable, or is it a war grave, and if recoverable decide if they will recover it themselves or allow others to pursue it.

Obviously it is unlikely to ever be rebuilt to fly (other than through use as patterns or identity), and probably due to the salt be a major effort to even stabilise for static display, and the only role I perceive WIX playing is to make it an issue to be resolved, (not fund a recovery or rebuild).

The main point being that none of us sitting in our homes of our PC's really know? these answers, but it seems the NHC were advised of this rare airframe 20 years ago and doesnt appear to have done anything in that time about its future, other than perhaps "seal its future"? and thats the problem we need to address!

This one might well already be simply be "white powder" suitable only as a fish reef, but it would still seem a perfect one to rally around and bring political, media and public interest on the remaining ones out there that may be still worth recovering, but that the NHC "seems" to have no plans for?

Perhaps it will be decided this isnt the one to rally around? but in simple terms the man who seems to know the most about all of this so far is Rob and I am keen to hear his thoughts.

regards

Mark Pilkington

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:56 am 
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Lots of questions and I maybe I can clear up what I mean by a "Project."

1. By project, I mean common action as determined by consensus here on the board. It could be a recovery, a commissioned art work, a party, or anything we decide to take on as a group. I'm not trying to be cute. What I am trying to demonstrate to Scott and the noble members of this group is that we are collectively very strong as an "organization," and that since we are one of the few places in public where you can daily see commentary on "warbirds," this board has become the public voice of warbird image, ownership, and interest. With that in mind, we should now and again look at ourselves and think about what we could or should do collectively. When we are here on the board, we are not turning wrenches, researching color chips, digging through archives or piles of parts. But this is a great place to coordinate efforts to a public end, to create a virtual project that we can all be involved in either by watching it and telling our friends about it, or by calling Rob and putting him on the spot to coordinate this "project" and tell us what to do. Hey, the idea started here to do something about a Midway F2A. When the history Channel airs their special on the recovery of the aircraft on the 70th anniversary of the battle, we will have ourselves to thank for being involved and should be prominently featured if we do this right. I nominated this as project #1 for many reasons. I think the next one we should pick is a Short Stirling. Uhh, maybe I should mention that I dream big. But I digress....

2. Goals. As with any project, there are going to be those who actually work to get it done, and those who chime in with moral support. I think the goals of this project #1 should be the following:
a. Identify the history relating to this particular aircraft
b. ascertain its location
c. assess its viability for recovery
d. find sources for funding its recovery
e. find an appropriate restoration facility
f. find a place for it to be displayed
g. publicize the event to the extent that it becomes a wider goal of other communities

Some of these goals can be accomplished by members of this board. Certainly, some of them are composed of very long lists of sub-goals and milestones. Some will have to be done by trained, vetted, compensated third parties.
Goal b,c are within the capabilities of some members of WIX. But every other goal can be accomplished by public, written communication initiated by members of this board. Goal g is the most important from the standpoint of advertising ourselves, and since Rob got a call from NHC, we can see it is already working. But we need to further this effort. Tell everybody you know that there is a website where some people are trying to find a Midway veteran F2A. Anybody can do that.


Operations. I defer to Rob- Rob, get out from behind the grill and put together a SIMPLE, EASY to UNDERSTAND play book that we can all follow, and then task people to get things done. We have talked about this for quite some time. Now's the time to shine. There are 16 people at last count who have volunteered to do things in relation to this project. 16 PM's should be sent to Rob, and specify exactly what you can do for this project, along with your recommendations on how to proceed. Oh, I second the nomination for Rob Rohr as Project Officer for Project #1. Don't disappoint me, Rob.

A blanket statement which I hope soothes some consciences. I have a thick skin. The only two people who ever caused me problems here were banned. Please feel free to object, disagree, call quackery, or offer any constructive advice on whatever I post here. I'm here for the warbirds, not my ego!

Respectfully submitted,

John K. Seidts
Chief Liaison Pilot
Forgotten Field Aviation Technical Center

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:03 pm 
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I thought all of this was to be discussed at the proposed meeting that was subsequently postponed (?) with the Navy at Pensacola that Rob and Co. had organized..I believe that meeting is still on the books

Dave


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:26 am 
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Rob,

take your time, clear your thoughts and advise how we can help pressure the NHC to manage the future of these aircraft correctly, either for their remaining lives as marine wrecks or targetted for recovery, restoration and display.

regards

Mark Pilkington

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:16 am 
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What is the status of the old FAF Brewster that was recovered from the lake in Karelia ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:46 am 
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Being re assembled at Pensacola last I heard, perhaps Owen can update us further..

Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:35 am 
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See this link http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm

The site has a massive forum devoted to the Buffalo too
http://p196.ezboard.com/fwarbirdsforumfrm4

They should be able to provide some info.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:02 am 
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Rob,

I saw your post on FP, please copy a similar version here,

as stated earlier, I support you on this, the recovery of the buffalo itself, is not the cause, simply a tangible example to work through to demonstrate the overall problem, I agree wholeheartedly that heritage does not stop at a simple date or year line in the sand of "civil war" or not, or for here is Australia, "convict/colonial" or not, and unfortunately for us aviation is now only 100 years "young" meaning that for aviation heritage as seen by others is assumed to only mean "steam powered aeroplanes".

The main goal still remains, as you correctly state, to highlight, argue challenge and change NHC's policy of letting historic aircraft rot to white powder on the obttom of the sea, rather than recover and stabilise them, or allow others to recover them for display etc, it is more value to the American public to be able to walk past the broken remains of the Buffalo on dry land "somewhere" for the next 30 years, than to know it is safely rotting away on the seabed for the next 30 years and still not there under either outcome in 40 years time.

At least recovered onto land at someones expense, may allow someone to preserve it more longer term or put it to some better use that fish shelter and artificial reef?

There is the in the "warbird" market, the resources etc that will willingly do this if permitted to recover viable aircraft, the larger "assets" managed by NHC - ships, carriers, submarines - wrecked/scuttled whatever, will most likely remain on the bottom regardless of anyone's wishes, capabilities or intentions to save them in a better way? and therefore like the Titanic slowly rot away to rubble too.

A logical argument and a show of numbers through a petition, all put in front of the US Media and Politicians will change policy rapidly.




regards

Mark Pilkington

- let me know where I sign, or who I write a letter to??

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:17 am 
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Please cease adding to this thread and bring all relevant comments into Robs latest thread on NHC at:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4273

regards

Mark Pilkington

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