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When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:44 am 
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The pilot pool is a great idea but would only work if it was coordinated on a national level and agreed upon by the individual museums with flyable aircraft. It will be difficult to get all the personalities on the same page.

The statics are going to be dead meat.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:53 pm 
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First, I would like to thank Rob for even broaching the subject, and the rest for their opinions. Second, I would like to thank the Dallas types for their work on getting airplanes to safety.

Now, some logistical issues for thought. I flew into Daytona last year before one of the hurricanes, I think it was Jeanne, and we were not even 1/4 full. I know the folks going were only trying to get home and get there families or home taken care of. This was like 16 hours before landfall, and the station was already securing everything they had, and were going to be done when they got our flight out. So, how do you get people in? I mean when do you make the decision to evacuate? Do you do it 3 days out and then have the problem of getting the airplane home? Also, who is going to be able to just take off from work and go out and buy the ticket to go get the plane?

Second, the info on the insurance companies just get in the plane and get it out is interesting. Does that mean the owner is now self insured if something happens on the way to "safety"? Also, does that mean that I can go and get in a plane that the FAA has not legally determined I am compotent to fly? I know there are a lot of people who can fly planes that were in the path of the storms, but who would have been legal able, and available?

Lastly, the funding issue. Lots of volunteers for the housing of the plane, but the plane ticket for the pilot, the food, gas, insurance, motel?

I am all for the opportunity, even in desperation by the owner to fly one of these gems, but....

Just my few quick thoughts,

dave


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:02 pm 
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No offense Gents, but if there was as much effort put into answering these questions as there appears to be in determining why the plan could not work, we might even figure it out...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:40 pm 
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Col., now we're getting somewhere. Who has these lists? Who wants to take the lead on this project? Count me in to help.

Who are the most prevalent insurers that we could contact for input from their point of view? Perhaps they would be in favor of having a qualified rescue plan for their "investments".

Fundage? I had a friend who was the Director of the American Bowling Congress. It amazed me that their budget was derived from memberships. They had 3 million members @ $10 a head. Nice annual budget, no? Obviously, we don't but how many warbird members are in EAA? $1, $5, $10 donations to an escrow fund? Warbird magazine subscrition lists or better yet, articles in the mags to get to the readers properly. Government grants, foundation donations, air museum donation boxes, corporate donations? Could this be a separate Warbird Preservation Foundation?

I don't have the all answers but I have a few ideas...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:10 pm 
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I agree, now we are getting somewhere. Perhaps, there is a way to "create" a disaster reponse team with a "small" annual membership to create a fund for the future. And also, perhaps there would be a way to get people who are high time, but not warbird fliers qualified to participate in the plans (I volunteer too Randy). I know that if I had a day or two off, and had to get somewhere to help get planes out, I would. Just have to keep trucking on the "by 50 plan"! Anyone need a right seater in their 25?

The way I see it, there are 3 problems that have to be resolved. First, how to get transportation to where the bird(s) are. Second, qualified pilots for that(ose) bird(s). And third, a "fund" to help the evacuations. I guess it all starts with having a list of owners in the prospective danger zones and quarrying them on their interest in help.

Count me in on the planning if need be.

dave


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:48 pm 
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See......? It can be positive.

So, step one: Identify all at risk aircraft, private or museum pieces in the areas of highest potential danger. I'm guessing 100 miles from the coast, Carolinas through Texas. I doubt that any West Coast aircraft are in jeopardy and it has been a long time since we had a storm surge here in Milwaukee.

Step two: Contact these owners and organizations to offer up our idea. Gather feedback.

Step Three: Establish a list of "qualified" pilots willing to help out regardless of where they reside in the country. Then establish an approximate "cost per pilot" to get them one way to the general area. This can include air travel or perhaps other team volunteers that could drive them in.

Step four: Cross reference the pilot list with aircraft by type and rating. Coordinate communication between the potential pilots and the aircraft owners prior to any incident so that all are aware of the response plan and are comfortable with it.

Additional issues can include an aircraft preparedness plan to make sure that the endangered planes are fueled and "pre-flighted" in the days prior to the weather. Fundage for reimbursement to the owner would come from the "foundation".

Pre-arrangement with the FAA (assuming it is possible) for "ferrying permits" and with the insurance companies to make sure they know the plan.

Remember, the storms that could destroy these aircraft have a reasonable, albeit short, lead time. Also, they are fairly focused and would not affect a large number of aircraft at any time unless the storm blew through Florida and then regained strength and hit the Gulf Coast (that would be a b*tch)

So, I yield the floor...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:18 am 
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Looks like this is a two man show, at least for the evening.

I agree completely on step one. However, I think that when you are talking about a hurricane that is above say 130mph at projected landfall, then perhaps 150 miles from the coastline should be considered. Perhaps a (hate to say this) Homeland Security color type zone should be issued. Let's say that from 0-75 miles is a red, a 76-125 is an orange, and a 126-200 is a yellow. Then, you have the rating on the priority. If you have someone who is in the yellow and "needs" help, then they are not disconsidered. However, they may have a second or third day sort of response for the planning versus a red guy.

No comment of step 2, but perhaps a team approach should be considered, I think we are talking about a relatively large number of owners and aircraft.

Step 3, is the hardest. We are talking about gathering a list of the pilots that are legal to fly by type. Not only must we consider the currency from the owners perspective, but we may have to think about the ability of the owner to "approve" of the pilot. I think that the warbird community is still pretty small, so most pilots who are typed and current would probably be ok, however, that may be a consideration. Also, some of us who would like to be considered, either need to come up with the cash or get some lucky breaks to get the opportunity. (Like I said before, anyone one need a right seater?)

Right on with step 4.

I agree with your thoughts on the additionals. I think that an intergral part of the "selling" the plan to the owners is finding funding. I think that if there were a "foundation" for the rescue of "Weather Threatened" warbirds, that it would have to get some donation moneys from outside, but also a good support by owners. Museums and such could probably arrange for their own private types of moneys for their own support, but by selling an insurance type idea to the owners and museums we would have a firm idea on whether it was going to be feasible at all.

Having grown up in Florida, the story you tell of short lead times is a tad bit off. By the time most of the country hears about a hurricane, the areas of the most likely impact (yes they are really large at first) have had at least a 3-5 day lead time. In a lot of cases that could be as much as 8-10 days. That is more than enough. Even the 3 day lead time could be enough with the proper planning. The idea would be to isolate the most likely areas of impact in a 72 hour period, generally a 300 mile or less impact area and dealing with the response cycle from an increasing area as I previously discussed in the color coding format.

Ideally, here is my thought. Hurricane Zebra is destined to hit West Palm Beach at 140mph. We know that it will hit between Keywest and say Jacksonville in a 96-120 hour period. "A" person of responsibility with the "foundation" calls the owners and tells of the threat, volunteering assistance. Owner has option of declining or accepting help. The "foundation" takes the owners needs, and evaluates the list of help available, and makes contact with that chain. By 72 hours out, help is on the way, and the owners have the responsibility of dealing with their homes and families. Perhaps, this could even sell to the insurance companies as a means of negating the types of loses experienced during Andrew or even Charlie in Kissimmee!

Anxious for debate or more input for devising an action plan.

dave


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 Post subject: Project #2?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:21 am 
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Looks like we have ourselves a 2nd project??

Project #1:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... sc&start=0



regards,


t~


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:32 pm 
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Lots of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here.....

While SkyMaster02's comments a few pages back weren't delivered with much tact I'm afraid he's pretty much right on the money. Bottom line is regardless of whether a well-intentioned grass roots effort like this puts together a viable list - when the sh*t hits the fan and a storm is rolling in a museum or owner of multiple planes is going to call someone they knows.

My father is an occasional display pilot for a well known group and despite a 20 year career as a fighter pilot in the USAF including a combat tour in Vietnam flying Skyraiders he had to go through a pretty long proving period of checkrides with folks from the group before he was even trusted to fly a T-6. After showing he wasn't an idiot he was able to graduate to flying piston engine fighters - even though he had 2000 hours of military fighter time. Unless someone has a familiarity and good opinion of you as a pilot and a person they're probably not going to let you strap on their warbird - even in an emergency evac situation.

Look at the situation with Lone Star as an example - when it came down to it and they needed to get some planes out, their buddies from around Texas got tapped and everyone jumped a ride down there and the planes that could fly got out fine.

While I think the intention here is admirable and coming up with such a list would certainly be a valuable resource for other reasons, I honestly just don't see operators calling up some unknown guy off a list and having them come evac their plane - unless maybe his last name is Hinton!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:56 pm 
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as i've said on the other thread, a plan must also be made to secure static aircraft displays & memorabilia too. granted, we can't dismantle a b-52 & stick it in your pick up truck, or move a display case of priceless memorabilia, but something has to be done to protect the stuff too. bottom line, it's all gonna be eventually irreplaceable.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:28 pm 
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Tom,

I wholeheartedly agree. Let's stay on the other thread to keep things simple but I want to work that into the emergancy response plan. Perhaps we can work on that together as to how to pull that off.

Thanks,
Scott

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:30 pm 
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i'm all ears!! :wink:

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!


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