Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:15 am
Just found these on eBay; fuselagecodes.com doesn't have a letter code listed for Moore Field, TX but it looks like it was "Z":
P-40N 44-47857:
P-40N 44-47859:
P-40F 41-14129 (odd - I thought the Merlin-powered F model didn't have a scoop on top of the cowl? Baugher lists this one as converted to a P-40R trainer; did they get refitted with Allison engines?)
Auction here.
P-40N 44-47857:
P-40N 44-47859:
P-40F 41-14129 (odd - I thought the Merlin-powered F model didn't have a scoop on top of the cowl? Baugher lists this one as converted to a P-40R trainer; did they get refitted with Allison engines?)
Auction here.
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:07 am
Hi Chris,
Welcome to the "Can of Worms" that is my world.
AAF Central Flying Training Command and its predecessors is the mother of three Flying Training Commands of AAF Air Training Command and is the most problematic! The other two, AAF Western Flying Training Command and AAF Eastern Flying Training Command have very neat and tidy field code letters.
AAF Central Flying Training Command predecessors, Air Corps Training Center/Gulf Coast Air Corps Training Center/Gulf Coast AAF Training Center sometimes used multiple letters for their fields sometimes not. I.E. the Central Instructors School at Randolph Field use two letters, while the Basic Flying School at Randolph did not. Generally the Basic and Advance Flying Schools did not use field letters, just numbers, but sometimes the numbers were in block of hundreds as the squadrons were activated then move to there respective fields. Moore Field used blocks of hundreds for the Advance Flying School and double digit numbers for the Single Engine Fighter Transition School.
This all change radical when on July 31, 1943 AAF Flying Training Command was merge with AAF Technical Training Command to form AAF Air Training Command and the Training Centers became Flying Training Commands. Now AAF Central Flying Training Command adopted a system of prefix letters for the Primary flying schools, suffixes for the Basic and Advance flying schools, which Moore was one, and infix letters for specialize schools like navigator or bombardment schools.
If your head is spinning, so is mine!
I have yet to find a photo of a AT-6 of the Advance Flying School with the suffix Z field code. I guess the P-40s of Single Engine Fighter Transition School were more sexy to photograph.
All the best,
Tom
Welcome to the "Can of Worms" that is my world.
AAF Central Flying Training Command and its predecessors is the mother of three Flying Training Commands of AAF Air Training Command and is the most problematic! The other two, AAF Western Flying Training Command and AAF Eastern Flying Training Command have very neat and tidy field code letters.
AAF Central Flying Training Command predecessors, Air Corps Training Center/Gulf Coast Air Corps Training Center/Gulf Coast AAF Training Center sometimes used multiple letters for their fields sometimes not. I.E. the Central Instructors School at Randolph Field use two letters, while the Basic Flying School at Randolph did not. Generally the Basic and Advance Flying Schools did not use field letters, just numbers, but sometimes the numbers were in block of hundreds as the squadrons were activated then move to there respective fields. Moore Field used blocks of hundreds for the Advance Flying School and double digit numbers for the Single Engine Fighter Transition School.
This all change radical when on July 31, 1943 AAF Flying Training Command was merge with AAF Technical Training Command to form AAF Air Training Command and the Training Centers became Flying Training Commands. Now AAF Central Flying Training Command adopted a system of prefix letters for the Primary flying schools, suffixes for the Basic and Advance flying schools, which Moore was one, and infix letters for specialize schools like navigator or bombardment schools.
If your head is spinning, so is mine!
I have yet to find a photo of a AT-6 of the Advance Flying School with the suffix Z field code. I guess the P-40s of Single Engine Fighter Transition School were more sexy to photograph.
All the best,
Tom
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:47 am
I hope Mr. Voss has these birds in his file already. I'm curious about the nose art. 30Z is "KANSAS CITY KITTY II", 33Z appears to have 2 characters preceding "WAD(or WHO) DAT UP DERE? (with an arrow pointed at the cockpit)" and 31Z with a reference to the song, "MAIRZY DOATS" appears to be bracketed by a couple of characters on either side of the legend...or mebbee they're just brackets? Nice find!
EDIT
Actually looking again "MAIRZY DOATS" is bracketed by 2 music notes on either side.
EDIT 2
a pair of music notes appear to be preceeding "WHO DAT UP DERE?" A popular Woody Herman tune from 1939 and very appropriate lyrics for a fighter pilot, Who dat up dere, who dat down dere?
All these birds are named after popular songs of the time. Cool!
EDIT
Actually looking again "MAIRZY DOATS" is bracketed by 2 music notes on either side.
EDIT 2
a pair of music notes appear to be preceeding "WHO DAT UP DERE?" A popular Woody Herman tune from 1939 and very appropriate lyrics for a fighter pilot, Who dat up dere, who dat down dere?
All these birds are named after popular songs of the time. Cool!
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:19 pm
res6kgcr wrote:I have yet to find a photo of a AT-6 of the Advance Flying School with the suffix Z field code. I guess the P-40s of Single Engine Fighter Transition School were more sexy to photograph.
This is from the same batch, and you're right:
41-32765 was lost along with its pilot on February 15, 1944; stalled/spun in near Moore.
42-4051 suffered a few category 3 damage incidents in and around Moore.
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:03 am
Please restore a P-40 to look like one of these. Shark's teeth are so passé these days...
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:03 am
I find large buzz numbers on warbirds interesting and attractive.
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:23 pm
Hi Chris,
John says that Gulf Coast AAF Training Center is more like a "snake pit" than a "can of worms".
Here is a impressive line up of P-40Fs of Single Engine Fighter Transition School from of the one of the "class book" from Moore Field:
Some of students
Since Packard was now building the Merlin 60 series for the Mustang, there were no more replacement engines for the P-40F and they were scrap, as this great picture of Bill Larkins at Lowry Field shows
But such was the industrial might of America, that Allison just kept building V-1710s and Curtiss kept building P-40Ns for the AAF training needs.
All the best to you all,
Tom
John says that Gulf Coast AAF Training Center is more like a "snake pit" than a "can of worms".
Here is a impressive line up of P-40Fs of Single Engine Fighter Transition School from of the one of the "class book" from Moore Field:
Some of students
Since Packard was now building the Merlin 60 series for the Mustang, there were no more replacement engines for the P-40F and they were scrap, as this great picture of Bill Larkins at Lowry Field shows
But such was the industrial might of America, that Allison just kept building V-1710s and Curtiss kept building P-40Ns for the AAF training needs.
All the best to you all,
Tom
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:13 pm
So, again, were the P-40R conversions re-engined with Allison QECs due to the lack of the earlier Merlins?
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:13 pm
Chris,
Thank you so much for forwarding the set of "Z" suffix coded P-40's based at Moore Field ,TX! Up to now every aircraft I have noted flying from Moore Field displayed only numerics. You certainly have made a contribution for my database! As Tom (aka "res6kgcr") stated the Central Flying Training Command is really a "can of worms". I've trying to figure out their structure of letter coding and have concluded there is none. The WFTC and EFTC is quite orderly and does make some degree of sense as they used a Prefix system for their letter coding.
The CFTC is basically a mishmash of Prefixes, Suffixes, Infixes as well as no letter coding whatsoever. If the intent was to confuse the enemy they were certainly effective as we remain confused ourselves seventy years later. All I can do is to document what I (and others) find and hope that one day it will all make sense.
I have posted one of your Moore Field P-40 images to my website ( http://www.fuselagecodes.com) under the subsection of "Transition Fighters" and of course gave you the credit as the source.
Thank you again for thinking of me and of course contributing another missing piece in the on-going puzzle!
John Voss
http://www.fuselagecodes.com
Thank you so much for forwarding the set of "Z" suffix coded P-40's based at Moore Field ,TX! Up to now every aircraft I have noted flying from Moore Field displayed only numerics. You certainly have made a contribution for my database! As Tom (aka "res6kgcr") stated the Central Flying Training Command is really a "can of worms". I've trying to figure out their structure of letter coding and have concluded there is none. The WFTC and EFTC is quite orderly and does make some degree of sense as they used a Prefix system for their letter coding.
The CFTC is basically a mishmash of Prefixes, Suffixes, Infixes as well as no letter coding whatsoever. If the intent was to confuse the enemy they were certainly effective as we remain confused ourselves seventy years later. All I can do is to document what I (and others) find and hope that one day it will all make sense.
I have posted one of your Moore Field P-40 images to my website ( http://www.fuselagecodes.com) under the subsection of "Transition Fighters" and of course gave you the credit as the source.
Thank you again for thinking of me and of course contributing another missing piece in the on-going puzzle!
John Voss
http://www.fuselagecodes.com
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:31 am
Hi Chris,
"MAIRZY DOATS" is the first example of a different model engine change out that I have seen and it all news to me.
It has had a major depot "production line" overhaul by the aluminum dope control surfaces. The depot could have done the change out as a "Power Egg" kit quite easily and this change out maybe is the P-40R. But I think the AAF came to the realization that you can have a complete new airplane almost for just as much money.
For sure, this one requires further research.
All the best,
Tom
"MAIRZY DOATS" is the first example of a different model engine change out that I have seen and it all news to me.
It has had a major depot "production line" overhaul by the aluminum dope control surfaces. The depot could have done the change out as a "Power Egg" kit quite easily and this change out maybe is the P-40R. But I think the AAF came to the realization that you can have a complete new airplane almost for just as much money.
For sure, this one requires further research.
All the best,
Tom
Last edited by res6kgcr on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Moore Field P-40s (attn: jdvoss)
Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:46 am
P-40F 41-14129 (odd - I thought the Merlin-powered F model didn't have a scoop on top of the cowl? Baugher lists this one as converted to a P-40R trainer; did they get refitted with Allison engines?)
It looks like it was a short tail "F" that had the engine and cowling from an "N" added. It has the secondary intakes ahead of the exhaust.
Sean