Warbird Information Exchange

I noted in the past here that there was discussion of another Halifax being recovered from Norway or somewhere by the Canadians AGAIN!!

Nothing seems to have been heard since - was this just wishful thinking on my part or is there any substance to it.

Regards
John P

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Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

Latest update as of Nov






Remembrance Day 2004 - Special Report

As we move into this week all of our nations will be remembering those veterans and warriors who fought and died for our freedom and peace. Freedom is the most important. Every day we wake up and know that we can do whatever we please as a free people in a great land.

Did this freedom we enjoy come to us and our children automatically? Were these rights given to us like some sort of government hand-out or cool freebie? Too many people in our nation today are starting to believe this and taking our freedom for granted. This is in part due to our leaders and educators lack of wisdom and rush to make Canada a "progressive" nation.

We must never forget the sacrifice of so many good people who , when their countries' freedom,safety, and very existence were threatened, went forth into battle to oppose tyranny and those who would attack us and our way of life.

Canada had the highest percentage of her population serving in the military in World War Two of all the Allied nations. Canada had the third largest navy in the free world in World War Two and the fourth largest air force in the free world in this conflict. We are, by our very nature in this country, a nation of "quiet warriors". History has shown when called upon to defend freedom Canadians and their military forces are second to none. We must hold on to this sacrifice in battle, not to glorify war, but to remember those who gave their lives yesterday for the freedoms we have today. And contrary to the public's general knowledge of our military history the armed forces of Canada have a history of excellence in battle that is unsurpassed. The majority of our people do not know of this great era of our heritage, our military history.

So if you have this documented evidence of great deeds and sacrifice of the army, navy, and air force of Canada in battle and you wished to educate, convince, and bolster the pride of these people who would like to know but have never been told, then you must have a symbol that represents that sacrifice and excellence. This symbol must connect to all the people from coast to coast and be one that truly represents the Canadian experience in battle. This symbol, by its very existence, must make the powerful statement that "we were not just targets in a battle with tyranny, we were Victors in defending the freedom and safety of our world."

There can be no finer symbol of our military heritage and history that the Handley Page Halifax of the Royal Canadian Air Force. 28, 000 of the 39,000 bombing missions done by the RCAF in World War Two were done on the Halifax bomber. Over 1000 Halifax aircraft were used by our Canadian squadrons during this period when so many grevious losses were experienced. Out of 100 Canadian bomber crews who started their combat duty only 24 would finish their combat tour. The other 76 were killed-in-action, killed-in-training, or prisoner-of-war. This was the greatest casualty rate of any military force in Canadian history, including the army and navy losses.The majority of our young aircrew warriors flew the Halifax. And who had the lowest loss rate in air combat of all the Allied squadrons of Bomber Command? The Canadians of the RCAF. Who had the highest serviceability rate, ready for battle every night, of all the squadrons of Bomber Command? The Canadian squadrons.

For years after I personally discovered these revelations about this country's air force warriors I dreamed, prayed, searched, and hoped a RCAF Halifax could be found somewhere in the world to become a memorial to their excellence and sacrifice. In my life's journey I have helped to find and recover a RAF Halifax from the bottom of a Norwegian lake and recovered 3 missing RCAF aircrew and their crashed Halifax from a Belgian swamp. I have received the invaluable training from these two recoveries which will allow 57 Rescue (Canada) , that is you and I together, to complete our mission to locate and recover RCAF Halifax LW170 from the deep ocean off Scotland. I hope you will understand why I believe we MUST do this project for all the reasons above. Think of these "impossible" technical recoveries that have been done by our people and remember that first the impossible was converted to the difficult, and then the project was successfully completed.

When Verner Von Braun, architect of the Apollo Moon missions, was asked what was the most difficult part of the entire Apollo project of sending and returning a man to the Moon, he replied it was not the sending of a man to the moon that was most difficult, it was finding the will to send a man to the moon.

Press on Regardless...

Karl Kjarsgaard
Project Manager
57 Rescue (Canada)
email: 57rescuecanada@rogers.com
website: www.57rescuecanada.com

On to business - These are the HALI-FACTS

I am pleased with the progress on the project in the area of creation of the corporate identity and charitable status of 57 Rescue (Canada). After several meetings with our tax lawyers and consultants at Binavince & Associates the formal application for Non-profit Corporate Status was submitted in late September with Industry Canada. This was the first step of our group in order to qualify and apply for Charitable status with Revenue Canada. This second step to become a registered charity is the key to our funding for the project as we will then be able to make proposals to potential corporate sponsors and foundations for their financial support of our project. Our group will also be able to provide tax receipts for all those private donations from members and interested supporters of the Halifax Project.

I would like all members and prospective members of our group to please take careful note that we have had to change our group name slightly as Industry Canada found a conflict with another corporate name in their register. We are now officially called Halifax 57 Rescue (Canada). Please remember that when sending in any cheques/checks for membership fees or donations that these checks should be made out to the above NEW name. Over the next few weeks I will be making the organizational and wording changes to our titles so please bear with me while the adjustments are made. I will advise when I am going to cash all those generous donations provided by our many new members. This will be before the end of December. I do apologize for any inconvenience to your budget because I have not cashed these fees and donations yet. Please bear with me as we continue to organize our group.

We are hopeful that soon we will be able to finish all the paperwork and then we can proceed full speed with the project planning, both financial and technical, for the Halifax LW170 Project.

On the political scene we have had some good progress. I have the letters of reference from Senators Cools and Senator Day. Just recently I received a very nice letter of reference from the Bomber Command Association which has over 6000 members. These letters were of great assistance to stengthen my letter to the Minister of Defence of England, which was sent in late October, asking for technical and logistical help from the MoD to help locate LW170. Our Halifax went down in a location which today is a Royal Navy exercise area for submarines and it is possible that LW170 has been located in the recent past or could be detected by sonars of the RN if they feel sympathetic to our project. As project manager I will leave no stone unturned to find Halifax LW170. I am hoping to hear from the British government soon regarding our special request. Standby for further.

Our friends in the USA are helping also. Retired Canadian Senator Orville Phillips, also a RCAF veteran and bombaimer on Halifaxes, has agreed to help and wrote a very nice letter to Senator John Warner in Washington about the Halifax project. Senator Phillips pointed out that thousands of Americans volunteered for combat in the RCAF and that this project would a wonderful memorial to remember those 700+ U.S. airmen who were killed-in-action while serving in the RCAF. Senator Warner's office said that they would be in touch once the U.S. election was completed. This story of those American boys in the RCAF has never been fully told and I see a great opportunity here to strengthen our bonds with our best friend and neighbour.

In anticipation of our corporate and charitable entity being realized soon, I have been able to acquire the services of our first group of Directors who have volunteered to start out as directors of HALIFAX 57 RESCUE (CANADA). They are keen and able to help the project succeed as trusted contributors to the team. They are:

James Blondeau (Ottawa) - Film Producer, responsible for the documentary of the Halifax NA337 recovery and recovery of Halifax LW682 with her missing crew.

Chris Charland (North Bay) - respected Military Historian and World War Two researcher of the Allied air forces, 12 years as USAF public affairs officer, published author, licenced pilot

Clarence Simonsen (Airdrie, Alberta) - World authority on aircraft Nose Art, Allied air force researcher, and RCAF historian

George Rosskopf (Ottawa) - Warbird rebuilder, talented aircraft machinist, and former Halifax NA337 structural engineer, licenced pilot

These talented people have agreed to help HALIFAX 57 RESCUE (CANADA) in these formative months as we begin our historic quest for RCAF Halifax LW170. In the middle of 2005, subject to the formalization of our group, we will be appointing officers and executive according to our needs and manpower required.

A full presentation of our Halifax Project was made to the Ministry of Canadian Heritage in September. I gave a briefing to the assistant of Minister Frulla with all of the stages of planning, budget, and historical significance of the project. The only support forthcoming from the ministry was that IF the museum at Nanton upgraded to a Category B "designated institution", AND we first located and recovered the Halifax ourselves at our own expense, we might be considered for a 50% grant of the recovery cost. This was most frustrating and discouraging to hear this news from people who profess to understand the true value of Canada's treasures. I will be in touch with the ministry again but we must begin thinking of other ways to gather financial support for Phase 1 of the Halifax Project.

On the technical side I have been in email correspondence with two shipowners who have the underwater sonars needed to find and inspect LW170. Most of our members and readers of this site have seen the proposed budget for Phase 1 of the project, which is in the order of $150,000. Remember that in order to optimize our resources and get full information on Halifax LW170 we must work with the sonar and ship company during the best weather window which will start in May/2005 and will finish in early August. So we have our work cut out for us to prepare NOW for the upcoming season. All factors will be considered and we will get the best team we can to succeed in our quest. I will have more on the technical side on the next report.

I am hopeful that in the province of Alberta, in light of the fact that Nanton will be the home for the Halifax, that we can find the support we need to get the project rolling. I have learned that when a person takes on such a challenging project there will be up and downs, victories and defeats, and that you should not get discouraged when things are not going the way you wish. We must all keep our eye on the target and complete our mission. We know for whom we labour and their sacrifice was not in vain.

WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

_________________
Cheers,
Peter

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Don't worry John,

The Canadians (and Karl Kjarsgaard in particular) are very anxious to find and restore another Halifax. That's the way to do it.

And there are several more candidates if LW170 can't be found or recovered.

Cheers

Cees

Hi Cees

Thanks for that - I am sure someone will keepit going - I just need to get someone here to take an interest in getting one!!!

Regards
John P

_________________
Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

it's just a shame that the RAFM can't be persuaded to follow a route like the Canadians have done to restore our Halifax- either that or recover another more suitable for restoration

sk

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Simon King

Hi Simon,

That would be nice but as we all know the RAFM (without being dismissive about this wonderful organisation) unfortunatley doesn't have the resources to restore such aircraft. IMHO the best thing would be to assemble it just as it was recovered (perspex, cowlings etc.). The Hampden isn't going to be restored fully as well.

It all depends on private initiative and lot of luck (not forgetting the money).

Cheers

Cees

Unfortunately, they're far too busy chucking away millions on fancy 'symbolic' buildings (such as the Cosford monstrosity) to waste money on anything so mundane as aeroplanes.

Hi Mike

Yes have to agree - be nice if some of these architects ever visited a site and were asked to keep the building in keeping with the heritage/ culture /ambience of the site rather than self depricating monuments to their own egos !!

Regards
John

_________________
Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

The RAFM seems to generally use direct labour or a limited number of outside contractors for restoration. I believe that the Canadian Halifax has not been restored using direct labour, but through the use of retirees etc.

There seems to be nothing to stop the RAFM doing this - just the will to do it. It seems, as the main cost of anything is manpower, that this would go someway to making inroads into the Restoration queue, which should include the complete restoration of both the Halifax and Hampden.

They also had an excellent opportunity to open up the new Conservation Centre for general viewing but chose instead to mainly (and I say that advisably) keep the doors firmly shut............

Does the new Freedom of Information Act, effective from 1/1/05 apply to the RAFM??

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Simon King

I would like to share with you a different view to the oft shouted 'restore the Halifax at Hendon'.

My personal view is that Halifax W1048 TL-S which is on display at the RAFM should not be restored and that restoration would effectively destroy what is a treasure of an exhibit and a very fitting tribute and memorial to the men who flew in this aircraft and to those who lost their lives during WW2. I do believe, however, that every effort should be made to preserve the aircraft in order that it can be viewed by many people for many years to come. This is, in fact, what the RAFM are doing with Halifax W1048 TL-S, they are preserving it and not restoring it and for that I applaud them.

For those who are not familiar with the history of this particular Halifax, it is a short history. Built by the English Electric Company in March 1942, she was originally delivered to 102 Squadron at Dalton (a satellite base to Dishforth). During her short time with 102 Squadron the aircraft did not fly on ops. On April 9th 1942 Halifax W1048 DY-S was one of six aircraft flown to Linton-on-Ouse where 35 Squadron were based and was exchanged for six 35 Squadron Halifaxes. Halifax W1048 DY-S then became a 35 Squadron aircraft W1048 TL-S.

The first and last operation that W1048 TL-S flew was on the night of 27/28 April 1942 during an operation to attack the German Battleship Tirpitz who was moored in Fættenfjord near Trondheim in Norway. A force of 43 Halifax & Lancaster bombers took off on this operation. Three turned back early due to technical problems. Of the 40 that continued, 5 failed to return, W1048 TL-S being one of them. Hit by AA fire over the target the Halifax caught fire and was unable to return over the North Sea to the UK. The Pilot, Canadian Don MacIntyre, skilfully crash landed the Halifax on the surface of a frozen lake allowing the crew to escape alive. Initially they set off together to attempt to reach neutral Sweden and later split into two parties. The Flight Engineer, who had injured his ankle during the crash landing, was eventually forced to give himself up while the remainder of the crew successfully evaded capture, made it to Sweden and were later repatriated to the UK. A more comprehensive account of the operation and evasion can be found here http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/arc ... 48tls.html

The heat from the burning aircraft eventually melted the ice and it sank to the bottom of the Lake Hoklingen where it remained undisturbed until it was rediscovered by Norwegian divers in 1968. It was recovered in 1973 and is now on display at Hendon as you are all aware. A more comprehensive account of the discovery and recovery can be read here http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/arc ... inued.html

So, this is not a Halifax with a long operational history, it is a one operation Halifax with a story to tell, and in my view the way it is presented in Hendon goes some way to telling that story. If the Halifax was restored into a gleaming shining example of an aircraft what would it tell us about the history of that particular aircraft?

Furthermore, and in my mind, much more importantly. The unrestored state of the Halifax is a reminder of the realities of war and the consequences of war. It also stands there as a memorial to the men who flew in the Halifax who did not return.

Why does it matter to me?

It matters to me because my grandfather, F/Sgt William Bruce Archibald, was one of those men who flew a Halifax and did not return. Almost exactly four weeks before W1048 TL-S was shot down he flew on a virtually identical operation with 35 Squadron to the same Target, Tirpitz. His Halifax was hit by AA fire in the target area and was on fire. Tragically his Halifax crashed into a fjord, exploded and killed all seven men onboard.

So, I visit the museum at Hendon and I don't look at W1048 TL-S and wish it was a gleaming shining highly polished aircraft that might look good but doesn't tell me how it was. I sit, as I did in October this year, and I look at the reality of what the cost of war is and I think about the hundreds of men who climbed onboard these aircraft night after dreadful night to go and fly over hostile territory not knowing if they would live to see another day and I thank them for giving me my freedom.

Yes there is a place in museums for gleaming shining, highly polished exhibits, but Halifax W1048 should not be one of them in my view.

We Will Remember.
Archie

Hi Archie,
Thanks very much for your contribution. You know, I actually feel the same way. I visited Hendon earlier in the year, and while I think the museum might be able to do more to make the Halifax a little more accessible for viewing from more angles, I was very moved by the way she looked. You could feel the history surrounding her. Another thing fascinated me... and that was I found I spent more time looking at her, because of the way she was presented than I would otherwise have done, had she been in perfect condition. I don't know why that is, but she's a fascinating relic, and I felt much more connected.

Yes, I'd love to see a Halifax restored to pristine condition, but the re-creation at Elvington (which I have seen), and the restoration of the one in Trenton, Canada (which I have not), have gone a long way to redress that. One thing is for sure: while the one in Canada will look amazing when it's done, and is a huge credit to all whom have taken part in saving her.... a great deal of the aircraft has had to be replaced in order to make it so... I'd say most of the skin, and many of the fuselage formers are new metal based upon the photographs I've seen of her over the years.
While there is nothing really wrong with that.... it is great to have one example at least which is 100% genuine WWII genuine (barring the semi-restored turret at least.... which looks a little odd!).

Thanks very much for expressing your opinion.

Cheers,
Richard

At the risk of risking the rath of Cees, I also agree it should be left as is, and the restored turret, should be made to look a bit more 'tatty' to fit in. It is fascinating to see an aircraft as it was pulled out in time capsule form, and especially so when the wreck is more or less intact . I would like to see the same thing done with the Emil that was pulled out of a Russian lake and now for sale with Jim Pearce. Dismantle it , clean and coat it with anti- corrosion chemicals, reassemble and display. Much like the wise decision Pensacola are taking with the Buffalo, we need more historic aircraft left in time capsule form, rather than meddling with them to make them bright shiny and dare I say .... boring! Seeing something displayed that way makes you stop and think about the history of it, rather than just 'window shopping'

Dave

Yes...original right down to the metallurgy. With the flaws of wartime
production "impatiences" showing! Someone here last week, was discussing the work they were doing on a Dauntless (I think)...and they
were explaining how they were finding "false rivetlines" and "slipped"
rivet gun "dings"...and the fact they were having to go thru the effort
of removing them!!

I thought to myself..."why would one remove those facts of history?" Yes,
he will have a "high-point" restoration...but with the "dings" one would
have something closer to a true artifact of its time! Why did the skin have
rivet gun dimples in it? Did "she" get the telegram from the War Department at that moment?...or was it fatigue from long shifts?...or rush
..rush..rush? "I would call that bird a 100 pointer!!!"

The Finns have a Hurricane in one of their museums, it is scuffed..dinged
and rough. Faded with chipped paint annd residual tape 'oer the gunports.
.....and its really fascinating to look at and "imagine" its' days.....

A battleweary "broad-sword" that tells a tale with its "mere" existance.

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Ok I have to wade in here with my thoughts on her...

I agree with someone above who said that she should be put back into the condition that she was in when she came out of the lake. Noone seems to know or care what happened to the rest of it and by the rest I mean all cowlings which were onwhen she came up ,engines were fitted, canopy glass and nose and nav bblister fitted. All of these are either missing or placed in a half a**ed way to resemdle a complete aircraft.

I do not agree with her being restored and standing up on her landing gear again as this would defeat the purpose of her being on display. She is a more fitting tribute as she is BUT if she was made to look complete and reunited with her missing bits it would be a more fitting memorial!!


PS
Archie your link doesnt work...?

_________________
Cheers,
Peter

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Peter, re the Links not working. There appears to be a problem with both my websites which were working fine yesterday. I have contacted my ISP to advise them. Thanks for pointing this out.

Later on...........I've checked again Peter and the links should work fine now.