Pres. Bush pardons man who smuggled B-17s to Israel.

Zagi-2 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:08 pm

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/BushLegacy ... 124&page=1

FYI. I believe that the early Israeli air force had a few Spanish versions of the Bf-109 in addition to these two Forts. I'm not sure if I heard that correctly, but still it's fascinating to consider the possibility of B-17's being escorted by '109's in the service of the Israeli AF.

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:48 pm

They were Czech built examples, they had the wrong motors too, but at least they were German !

A2C · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:26 pm

He's a little late isn't he?

P51Mstg · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:36 am **Posts:** 1202

EDITED because original post was deleted and the discussion does not have anything to do directly with this topic.

Lets move, nothing to see here.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:55 pm

The B-17 saga is an interesting one.

The '109's were Avia S-199s with German bomber engines. And to increase the ironies, they also flew with Spitfires. :shock:

Let's stick to the B-17 guy, not other issues, please.

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:25 pm

EDITED because original post was deleted and the discussion does not have anything to do directly with this topic.

Lets move, nothing to see here.

On topic here
I think the B-17 issue is very interesting. This does much for the PR of the United States.
Was that the one time where Spitfires vs. Spitfires happened? Didn't Egypt have a few?
Did they ever go up against some of the Israeli Spits?
JDK, do you have any news of Spits vs. Spits?

richkolasa · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:04 pm

EDITED because original post was deleted and the discussion does not have anything to do directly with this topic.

Lets move, nothing to see here.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Bluedharma wrote:

Was that the one time where Spitfires vs. Spitfires happened? Didn't Egypt have a few?
Did they ever go up against some of the Israeli Spits?
JDK, do you have any news of Spits vs. Spits?

There were a few Spitfire friendly fire incidents in W.W.II,including Hurricanes and famously a Blenheim shoot down - 'Battle of Barking Creek'.

Israel, Egypt and Britain were all operating Spitfires,in the area - IIRC, an RAF Spitfire was shot down by an Israeli one misidentifying it as an Egyptian one - but I'm sure someone else will tell the story accurately!

Guys, can we just leave out the border patrol issues, please? No one wants another thread to go south - let's stick to the warbirds.

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:09 pm

Thanks Rick for getting the facts straight ........wouldn't want to confuse some posters with them, but a welcome change in this instance.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:10 pm

Speaking as a mod, facts straight or not, please let that discussion stop here.

Thanks.

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:12 pm

Where are these B-17s now?
Are they melted down? As they were the only bombers they had... are they in a museum now?

Best Regards,

Mudge · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:18 pm

Border Patrol incident notwithstanding...."Smuggling" B-17s just strikes me as funny. How the he!! do you "smuggle" a B-17? The word "smuggle" conjures up visions of people sneaking articles in suitcases, packing crates, etc. past border guards.
"No officer, that's not a b-17 in the back of my pick-up. It's a new type of bar-b-que grill."

Yeah...yeah...I know what you MEAN, but it still makes me laugh.

Mudge the imaginative :hide:

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:24 pm

Hey, Mudge the lucky geezer in the pic?!

Smuggling. I know what you mean - "You mean it's a warplane officer? I thought it was a daily shopper for the wife to use! Well darn me, I'll have words with that salesman. One careful 'Uncle S' user, eh..."

There was a lot of aircraft 'smuggled' into Spain during the Spanish Civil War.

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:26 pm

Didn't Israel use C-47s' for bombers also?

noizeedave · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:09 am

Yes they did use C-47s as bombers to make the Eygtians and Sryians believe they had a larger more powerfull bomber flight. At first the loadmasters would throw smaller bombs out the door, and then they made caddles that would allow them to lob out larger bombs out the troop doors.

C-47s and B-17s were the great bomber squadron of the IDF during the War of Independance.

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Pres. Bush pardons man who smuggled B-17s to Israel.

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