Warbird Information Exchange

In the forums on fighters, guys asked my impressions of flying Spitfire and comparing it to P-51. 24 years ago as a 300 hour Mooney pilot, Dan Martin gave me my 1st 51 ride, probably so I'd quit hanging around! I bought the gas, $175, which might pay for a T-34 hop now! It was loud, fast, with great visibilty in the bubble canopy. Auto traffic below seemed like targets, and Dan was smooth. Then I saw an ad & bought a dual control MkIX. I got Cub, Stearman, & T-6 checkout & and 20 Spit hours before solo. Spit has very good manners, but is an eye opener, it climbs 6 times faster than a Mooney; gear down speed is faster than 172 top speed. It is a 5th heavier than a 6, has 3 1/2 times the power. My instructor, a combat jet pilot,Reno 51 racer, said at 50 inches" it really gets with the program". Some planes have a good engine, some a good wing; this had both. Nothing I've been in sounds like a Merlin and the wing is great, fast or slow. Howard Pardue, flying the CAF IX, said "it's not real fast, but that's the finest wing ever put on an airplane. RAF and warbird pilot Charlie Brown, "I have not flown a plane with more docile stall than a Spit" Not fighters, but any plane. Note, 220 stearman is only equeal I've seen. Spit is very good around the pattern and for acro.
I live at 8000', where many planes barely climb; the Spit will peg the vertical scale at 4000 fpm, & at less than full power;service ceiling is 7 miles high. Power & noise are instant, no throttle lag. Roll it into a steep bank and it is predictable; turn rate is whatever G you want to pull. Limits are 9 positive, 8 negative. I flew a RCAF jet instructor, said "this thing will turn up it's own tailpipe'.The noise level is better than a 51, and with wing radiators cockpit is much cooler; but no heat in winter. Economy cruise is about 240 mph at 47 gph. Mine has 108gal internal, so about 2:15 to empty, without my 60 gal belly tank. It can trim hands off, but is no airliner. It is lands well 3 pt. prefered, wheel landings ok for jet pilots or those worrried about visibilty in the flare. Short final at 80 knots, stall at 62, and tends to roll true with out needing brakes. Go around docile, 44" plenty even with gear and flaps. For any pilot, to fly apiece of history is great and it is still a classic. More later on the 51 & other Spits.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Bill...You just HAD to post that didn't you?
Makes me want to run right out and get a ride in a Spit.
Problem is, I'm just too big.

Mudge the mucho grande

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Land of the free because of the brave

thanks bill
this is what i like to read someone that realy love's his big beutiful toy .
from the way you wrote she really seems like the ultimate mistress (just don't tell the wife) .
paul

Makes me sweat just thinking about it...




Makes me sweat just thinking about it...

Earl Ketchen, who taught me to fly the Spitfire took me for several 51 rides, but no stick time. Then I got to fly Crazy Horse briefly at Osh, then I did formal training with both Doug and Lee there and Kissimmee, about 5 hours, enough to be comfortable. I don't practice wheel landings in the Cub or Spit, so my first attempt led to skipping down the runway. I told Lee we should rename it Crazy Hops. Later with Doug I did a very good almost 3 pt. landing, 90mph at the numbers, he said fine, but no slower. With full flaps you appraoch a liittle nose down so see more runway that the Spit. It does not have as good of control as the Spit, loses a lot of aileron effect, some rudder & elevator. Spit is really good there, also go around. The 51 ,at about 50" makes a lot of noise, but there is more hang than go until gear and big flaps are up. So I don't want to get too slow in a 51, about 95mph seems ok. Once down the 51 is stable, I did not have much trouble keeping it straight. Normal takeoff is 44" in Spit, 51 uses about 55 to 61" and takes more runway. If you are smooth and progressive on power, and don't force the tail up, both planes have enough rudder. The planes have similar engines, allmost the same wing area, but feel a little different. The controls are a little heavier, a little less authority in the 51. I did not find normal straight ahead stall that bad in the 51, maybe like a T-6. Like a 6, a power on, cross control stall woud be dangerous down low. The Spit wood prop has less inertia so revs or slows quicker. Gear up, both planes accelerate and the 51 is a little slower in climb and a little faster in cruise. The 51 just feels like a larger plane, like it is designed to go somwhere. The Spit feels like it was dsigned to make Klaus wish he had stayed home. A major difference is heat. A 51 pilot sits above a radiator and has coolant tubes inside the cockpit, it is an oven in summer. Spit is fairly cool, with all this in the wings, also quieter. I've never seen an actual heater in a Spit! Howard almost froze in mine in Dec., but then they ain't making Marines like they used to. The 51 has a few more pilot gadgets like mixture control, the Spit is more automatic. The 51 engine stays cooler in ground runs, the Spit runs cool as soon as the gear is up. Both are good for acro, the Spit can manuever even if speed falls off. I wish I had at least one of each, and I'd particularly like to fly or ride cross country in a 51. In combat Spit was easy to fly near limit. For civi use 51 has a lot more storage area and usually another hour of range.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

likewise I'm a wee bit over gross (20 lbs according to Monseigneur Greenwood) to get a ride in the duallie Spitfire.
Makes me wish I hadn't had those chocolate chip cookies for dessert at lunch today.

But thanks for the write-up

fade to black... bring up music... To DREAM the IMPOSSIBLE Dream!
cut to shot of flying above the clouds on a beautiful sunlit day...

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

Geez Spanner...only 20 lbs.? I could lose that in a couple of months. Even then I'd still be 40 lbs. too grosso.

Mudge the porker

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Land of the free because of the brave

OK... that does it... I'm going running after work!
Who needs kneecaps anyway?

C130 headin' down the strip...
Airborne Ranger gonna take a little trip...
If that 'chute don't open wide...
I'll go splat on the countryside... soundoff
huff puff sweat, sweat

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

Thanks for the comparison Bill. I like the photo of your Spit in flight from Airliners.net:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1055327/M/

Spanner...Why run, you'll just tire yourself out. Just get up from the table a little sooner. Works for me.

Mudge the disciplined

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Land of the free because of the brave

jeez you guy's are lightweight's i'd find it hard to fiti inside
paul (another reason i like beau's )
thanks for the comparison bill worded perfectly i'm so jealous.
now for some liposuction and a plane ticket and a lotto win

For you guys that are more, shall we say radial than inline, you may be able to find a dual control 51 or Fury and they are less c g sensitve. My Spitfire was built as a single seat high altitude fighter, so when the factory converted to dual cockpit in 50-51, c g became impt. I can take up up to 190 lbs in back and I actually weigh people because they fudge a little. Might have been fudge that caused the problem in the first place. When I go to Osh, I tend to lose weight because there are a lot more interesting things to do than eat and the food is none to good, but you don't go there for the food anyway. I get a lot of exercise, it is about a 3 mile round trip walk if you go all the way from Warbirds in the north to the ultralights at the south end.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

[quote="Bill Greenwood"]For you guys that are more, shall we say radial than inline,
i resemble that remark!!

thank's again for the comparison,i'm begining to see why you and other's love the spit so much,sort of why i like my vw polo gti compared to my wife's subaru liberty(legacy over there) the subie maybe more comfy on a long trip but no where near the fun
paul

Bill, man I knew it, 1989 in Harlingen, for the morning photo shoot, I had a choice of your Spit or Texas Raiders, I knew I was wrong. I'll never see 190 Lbs again not with Ruth's Chris on the road. One seems to have more room in a Mustang than a Spit as I sat in the SeaFire @ Nelson's, there was little room for anything, not even the radial in me. Thanks for the inside story on the Spit.

Lynn

As a man once told me " I'm in shape ! Round is a shape !"

Think the Spit is tight? Try an A-4 Skyhawk ! Heinemann forgot a pilot was needed then they had to squeeze enough space for one !