Warbird Information Exchange

Mr Inspector, sent PM......

To sum it up. They were not spanked. And they were never told no.
They were allowed to do what ever they wanted.
If anyone else took it uppon themselves to scold the little darlings. The parents went ballistic. If they bothered a neighibor or were bad at school don't dare protect yourself from them. Their parents would be on a rampage. The little darlings never had a thing to fear or to want anything as it was all pretty much given to them on a silver platter. That is what perpetuates that attitude they have. I'll stop now.

a question:
Why can't you refuse to do someone else's work, or at least get the paperwork on his failure to do it? If an airplane isn't certified can it fly? So prevent the certification and make sure he gets the blame... Isn't there someone who has to certify all work done on a bird? I must of read that somewhere once

So why don't you simply make sure you are there to point out the substandard work, so that the person's issues are actually TRACKED? Paperwork IS what runs this wonderful world right? And enough paperwork, and they go to the land of the unemployed where they may be riding welfare, but at least they aren't endangering the civilians.
There has got to be a system in place, and a way to get this done. Every company no matter how pathetic has this (ven Ford and GM). So why isn't it being USED?

again a matter not of changing the person but removing him from the system and not waiting for God's hand to reach out and grab him by the collar.


It seems like there is some sort of inability to make workplace issues stick. How do you fix THAT? since it seems like one of the main gripes I see in here next to Engguy's complaints about how when he was young he had a load of fish dumped on his head every morning... and how today children are no good because they don't get fish dumped on them like he did as a boy (monty Python Ref)

we are now in an economy where jobs are hard to get. Especially in YOUR field, I suspect. So take the opportunity to weed out the trash. SOMEBODY surely will want the guys job if he's too stupid to keep it...

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Have you never stood there and watched someone do something you knew was wrong and didn't say anything? At that moment you dropped squarely into the same category as he and I did when we did the stupid thing or was too weak to do anything.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We aren't as brilliant as we like to think. Ask Patty W. Or Chuck Y. We ALL make stupid mistakes, and we ALL fall into the worthless category and we ALL act like jerks now and then. If you don't please send me your address so I can follow you around and coolect your poop and sell it at my local pawn shop because they LOVE 24K gold.

I absolutely count myself in that group. And I absolutely count you in that group if you're willing to pass a student who shouldn't be passed, or allow a coworker to not do his job without taking action to defend yourself, your company, your family, and your passengers.
We in America have a very nasty habit of blaming each othe rinstead of holding ourselves, and each other, responsible BEFORE the bad thing happens.

I am not claiming to poo gold either. I am saying that if you want the A&P system to improve, you are going to have to improve it, not whine about poor quality coworkers and students.

So like I asked: Why can't you factually report shoddy workmanship, and get his ticket revoked? Why can't you report your company for dangerous maintenance habits? Heck, make book and take pictures and turn them into the news. Your local news office would LOVE to expose your airline for endangering people. Like I keep saying: Newspeople aren't liberal, they're just reedy. So use it to your advantage.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Just because someone is carried around in a helicopter like cargo and jumps / Ropes / shoots out of it and has airborne on their sholder patch will give you exactly a army specialty code of NADA Avaiator.

MuddyBoots said


Have you ever tried to get the FAA to do anything like that ? I have, I took the stabilator cables in to the FAA along with my other concerns, the reply was, unless they find it, there is nothing they can do.

[/quote]

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Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
Check out the Ercoupe Discussion Group on facebook

You're right. But of course, just because one turns a wrench doesn't make one intelligent, or the kind of person one would trust with his children or his sheep

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

[/quote]

I don't understand, Matt. The bit of my comment you replied to answers your problems. And if the news makes the point that the FAA ignored the issue...well, I seem to remember a FEMA director getting fired for just that. And a Sec Def as well. Oh, and an Air Force Chief...

People are unhappy with business and overnment screwing us and ignoring our safety and needs. Use it. The wonders of modern technology now allow you to walk around with a cell phone in your hand and actually record what they are doing. I mean, how many cops have you seen get fired because someone was smart enoug hto videotape it? LA riots anyone? Make book, baby! It's the new wave of enforcing liberty and defending your rights!

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Anyone who knows me will assure you that I am the least bashful person they ever encountered when it comes to aviation safety, it's cost me a job or two over the years, but of this I am ABSOLUTELY certain, I can look myself in the eye when I shave or brush my teeth, I also fully understand that most folks don't realize they face their own worst enemy when they shave or put on their make up. (no, that's not a dig @ coporate mechanics or avionics types)
My job is to see if average people can be trained to do tasks with repeatable accuracy and skill, I've failed several students in the Boeing system and some have repeated courses so many times we've considered having them fitted for mascot outfits, among the issues are the IAM @ Boeing who cannot stand to see $65.00 a month walk out the door without dozens of chances and, what we Instructors refer to as 'the entitled generation' who EXPECT everything on a platter, I've had kids who've never opened the hood on their cars and expect to all be'zecutives' and seriously want to know why an airplane can't be texted together.
For every group of failures I count evey potential passengers lucky stars for the one or two who actually 'get it' and become excellent. contientious mechanics, I'm not bragging but I have better results than most of my contemporaries because I'ver been told my passion for correctness burns like a flame around the students and I am (as well as the other five EDCC instructors)a well rounded, experienced licensed aircraft mechanic not, a SME (Subject Matter Expert, Boeings description for someone who knows and can teach one tiny part of the total item).

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

This is a great thread with lot's of good information and good discussion.

Try and keep it on subject and on an even keel ( a little Naval speak from a flatlander )

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Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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ZTEX,
I'm trying to get back to the center of the thread but some how the rest of us keep getting caught in a hard right turn-

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Well you're not bashful about throwing me about the room like a ragdoll when you think I'm out of lilne *bows deeply* and I apologize if I was sounding like some kind of whiny new ager. I assure you that I am not. I've had a hell of a life, for good AND for bad, and I have never blamed a soul for what it ha smade me. But I also don't let people ride my ticket. Ever.

It just seems really strange to me that a business where peoples lives are on the line every day doesn't have some viable option for removing dangerous people. I mean, in the military you just put your huevos on the line and ride the chain of command until they either put you in jail or fix the issue if it's that important to you. Doesn't BoingBoing (only an example) have a way to deal wit this, or has the union got it's tentacles so wrapped around it that you can't do anything about it?

Heck, it seems as if you could find a voice in this forum, since we have at least one Writer/ Editor on board who could put it together and get it out there.

And I know the FAA will duck and bob, but what if they simply recieved a large packet of photos, vids, with dates and times and back story, and a simple note:
"If this is not acted on before XXX it will be released to every large news agency in America." There are whistleblower laws, after all to ensure you have the abilitty to do just that when the publics safety is at risk.

And again about the stupid students. Despite what Broken Wench thinks, instilling an awareness of the need to THINK and CARE is also one of those things you have to do as a grunt as well. The old saw that all an infantryman needs is a pulse and a rifle is absolutely not true. I saw my share of 18 year old dingalings as well. I saw my share of 25 and 30 and 35 dingalings, and as many officers as enlisted, proportionally. Now, I was able to use a boot to enforce the need to excel, and you can't do that, but darn, Inspector, it seems crazy that you have no tools to ensure the rejects are...rejected. If not the FAA then something.

It really seems as if you have more problems with the people who are in the system already than with the kids in class...

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

BINGO! The money comes through, there, too- At my school I have seen students who have failed so many of my courses I expect to see them dropped. But that would lose the school money... One was the nicest guy in the world. But a car accident left him with some form of damage to the brain box- you could never really understand what this kid was talking about. When I was a student, I swore he was there to learn to fix his spaceship, so he could go home. Anyway, you'd think the guy would have never made it in, much less be kept in a program he showed no ability for. It took them months to finally drop him- and lots of his money...

What is decidedly needed is a pre-acceptance aptitude test. The only real qualifier is the ability to get a student loan! (A couple people I knew paid their own way- cash- and they still tried to pressure them into a loan!) Aad all progress should be performance based- not just being able to memorize Prep-Ware...

I like where I work. I believe in the program. But if they would change the way they recruit students & criteria for enrollment, the school could do so much better!

Oh well.. Off to bed and work in the afternoon...

Robbie

Robbie,
BINGO REDUX! I fully agree with you on your points. A pre-employment or pre-training evaluation would be just the thing needed, unfortunately the recent past requirements for people around here meant that pre-employment screening sort of amounted to 'look down their throat, if you don't see the rug, hire them' And since we are way downstream of that process, we get stuck trying to make competent mechanics out of marginally warm bodies. THey are, or were up until the first of the New Year, run through a pre-employment program that amounted to little more than seeing if they can put a bit in a drill without boring a hole in their hands. "OK by us, you can train them now".
That coupled with the schools avarice and greed for more funds means if they can fog a mirror, they're in. The FAA is no help either, with their dual roles of promoting aviation and guarding safety of the airways, (HUH? watch the hen house and enjoy the fried chicken) they also contribute to the problems and issues they should be addressing but can't, don't, or won't.

The FAA permits and in fact encourages the video game approach to training because they aren't then required to actively police the schools, they take the word of the Administrators that it's all on the up and up and good to go and give it the French Salute (thanx again to Blazing Saddles) and it's now blessed by the eweessgumint as 'approved ciriculum' and the entire system suffers, I guess, when it all boils down it gets down to ethics, either you have them or you never will, and if you have no ethics you have no shame or guilt and see nothing wrong with your shoddy endevours even if they kill people.

thats very very sad!

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

I basically lost my job at Always Instructing Morons because I demanded that a student be removed from the program, if not permanently then for a month or so. Said student slept through the entire course I taught, flunked the final, then disrupted my class yelling and screaming and physically threatening me until another instructor and I could physically remove him.
I was told THE VERY NEXT DAY by THE SCHOOL DIRECTOR to let him retake the final, basically ordered to let him pass, and was told that they wouldn't flunk him out because his "money has already been paid in".
Like I said, this attitude seems to come from the top, the owner has to pay for his warbird collection somehow....
And, by the way, I was reprimanded for letting my students go into the hanger where the owners B-25 was and letting them see it. Later when it was moved to the schools hangar it was surrounded with crowd control yellow tape to keep the students from touching it while mechs that DID NOT come from that school worked on it....

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All I did was press this red button here...