Collings Foundation B-17G 909 Has Crashed :-( 10/2/2019

[phil65]

Wow....
Maybe a dumb question, but I wonder if it will simply get donated to the New England Air Museum ?

Phil

[ChrisK48]

The names of the deceased have been released officially.

Ernest McCauley, 75 - Pilot, from Long Beach, CA
Michael Foster, 71 - Co-Pilot, from Jacksonville, FL
David Broderick, 56 - passenger from West Springfield, MA
Gary Mazzone, 66, - passenger from Broad Brook, CT
James Roberts, 48 - passenger from Ludlow, MA
Robert Riddell, 59 - passenger from East Granby, CT
Robert Rubner, 64 - passenger from Tolland, CT


Rest in Peace

[ChrisK48]

Injured:

Mitchell Melton, 34 - Flight engineer on B-17, from Dalehaff, TX
Andy Barrett, 36 - passenger from South Hadley, MA
Linda Schmidt, 62 - passenger from Suffield, CT
Tom Schmidt, 62 - passenger from Suffield CT
Joseph Huber, 48 - passenger from Tariffville, CT
James Traficante, 54 - passenger from Simsbury, CT

Andrew Sullivan, 28 - airport employee

Last edited by ChrisK48 on Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[WIXerGreg]

I saw mention on Facebook of Mac being one of the fatalities but didn't want to repeat it unless it was officially announced. Rest in peace to all of them and best wishes to their friends and families.

I hope whoever was engineering will be able to shed some light on what happened.

[T J Johansen]

And last but not least!

Injured:

Andrew Sullivan, 28, airport employee

Who ought to be named as well, as even though he wasn't a part of the flight he sure deserves mention.

T J

[p51]

I'd been anxiously waiting for the names of those killed because I still knew a couple of people who flew for/with Collings and was worried they might have been in the cockpit at the time. I didn't know any of these people, even though that doesn't lessen the tragedy one iota.

Video from the NTSB surveying the site-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO8HdzY ... e=youtu.be

Wow, this tells a lot that I wasn't aware of before seeing the video, that seems to be clear and not conjecture, based on what can be easily seen now:
*The de-icing tanks apparently didn't contribute to the fire at all
*The plane's nose apparently hit that ILR mast. Note the piece of curved Perspex on the ground. If that was indeed a nose hit, I can only guess what might have happened in the cockpit. Sadly, we'll never know for sure on that point

[ChrisK48]

And last but not least!

Injured:

Andrew Sullivan, 28, airport employee

Who ought to be named as well, as even though he wasn't a part of the flight he sure deserves mention.

T J

You're right, he does. He wasn't on the list that I saw.

[17f]

Video from the NTSB surveying the site-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO8HdzY ... e=youtu.be

Is it just me, or does the prop on the engine they are examining around the 1:10 mark seem to be in the feathered position?

[BigGrey]

I feel sorry for all the victims but the loss of Mac hits really hard. I rode in 909 with him several years ago and we spent many hours and days together at Chino.

[Vital Spark]

Video from the NTSB surveying the site-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO8HdzY ... e=youtu.be

Is it just me, or does the prop on the engine they are examining around the 1:10 mark seem to be in the feathered position?

That’s what it looked like to me.

[old iron]

I agree. When you think about it, the safety record of the "touring" heavy bombers is pretty darn good. I can't remember the last fatality in this country with a B-17. Would it be as far back as the fire fighting ships?

While the Liberty Belle was not a fatal crash, that is two destroyed aircraft in ten years. You might be hard-pressed to find another non-experimental aircraft type with that high a loss-to-flying hours record in this decade.

I have no issues with flying the B-17s. There are plenty in museums and almost a double-digit number in the air, so these are not rare. To my mind, the educational value outweighs the risk - I think quite differently for the PoF flying wing.

However, the B-24s are significantly rarer. This was also a type that was not as good a flyer as the B-17, and so I would guess to have a greater risk per flying hour. The loss of one of the two B-24 flyers, a risk that may be quite statistically significant if these these are flown for another 20 years, would be a severe loss to the community of surviving aircraft. Of course, these are flown at owner's discretion, but I would personally like to see these retired.

[Matt Gunsch]

Video from the NTSB surveying the site-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO8HdzY ... e=youtu.be

Is it just me, or does the prop on the engine they are examining around the 1:10 mark seem to be in the feathered position?

Unless you can get a clear view of all the blades, don't count on it being feathered, a hard enough hit can break the blade and move just one blade.

[Kyleb]

*The plane's nose apparently hit that ILR mast. Note the piece of curved Perspex on the ground. If that was indeed a nose hit, I can only guess what might have happened in the cockpit. Sadly, we'll never know for sure on that point

That could also be a landing light lens, right?

[GRNDP51]

However, the B-24s are significantly rarer. This was also a type that was not as good a flyer as the B-17, and so I would guess to have a greater risk per flying hour. The loss of one of the two B-24 flyers, a risk that may be quite statistically significant if these these are flown for another 20 years, would be a severe loss to the community of surviving aircraft. Of course, these are flown at owner's discretion, but I would personally like to see these retired.

When I first heard about "Collings Foundation bomber" I thought if it's the B-24 they just became more rare than B-29's... I do agree that the B-24 should be taken off of the tour. That is honestly so much flying for that plane and with only 2 of them it's hard to justify. Airshow appearances and rides at them, perfect.

At this point this might even be a moot point if the tour ceases to exist...

I've been pretty nervous with Doc flying all over. It's awesome to see here in San Diego, but man does it worry me putting flight hours on her and Fifi. I know they were meant to fly and are cared for meticulously, and I LOVE that, but still scares me to refresh Facebook one day see a rare bomber crash, like happened to 909. Facebook gets really sad whenever this stuff happens and we sadly can't control it.

[Matt Gunsch]

However, the B-24s are significantly rarer. This was also a type that was not as good a flyer as the B-17, and so I would guess to have a greater risk per flying hour. The loss of one of the two B-24 flyers, a risk that may be quite statistically significant if these these are flown for another 20 years, would be a severe loss to the community of surviving aircraft. Of course, these are flown at owner's discretion, but I would personally like to see these retired.

When I first heard about "Collings Foundation bomber" I thought if it's the B-24 they just became more rare than B-29's... I do agree that the B-24 should be taken off of the tour. That is honestly so much flying for that plane and with only 2 of them it's hard to justify. Airshow appearances and rides at them, perfect.

At this point this might even be a moot point if the tour ceases to exist...

I've been pretty nervous with Doc flying all over. It's awesome to see here in San Diego, but man does it worry me putting flight hours on her and Fifi. I know they were meant to fly and are cared for meticulously, and I LOVE that, but still scares me to refresh Facebook one day see a rare bomber crash, like happened to 909. Facebook gets really sad whenever this stuff happens and we sadly can't control it.

More rare planes have been lost in hangar or museum fires than have been lost in accidents. It is harder for fate to hit a moving target....