Russell Group ME 109 Take Off Incident (no injuries)

[richkolasa]

I would like this thread to remain an informative discussion on what, why, and how the accident happened.

I thnk "act of God" can be ruled out.

This is a serious matter and we are thankfully not morning the loss of a pilot and very rare aircraft.

Gee, I kind of thought that's what I was "pissing" about!

Rich

[vernicator]

I'm just curious, by the way. Why must every one of you Canadian posters mention Mr. Russell's "resources"? It's hilarious, like he is opposite to all those "poor" warbird owners like Paul Allen, Mike Potter, Jerry Yagen, Dan Friedkin, etc.

Rich

...oh my god dude...really? WTF?

[Fleet16b]

Being someone that has flown in and out of this field alot, the poles are actually no more a threat than say trees etc that you find at the end of some strips.

Hmm, it would seem that a tree, having quite a bit of width and having dark green leaves would be quite a bit more visible than a 4-6" wide pole that is light-colored. Of course, I've never landed or taken off at that field (just a couple dozen ones here in the States that have telephone poles/wires or other obstructions at the end of the runway), so the point is I guess moot (apparently Niagara is the land of "Magic Grits" and other earthly abnormalities, like where narrow white poles are as easy to see as big green trees).

Down here in NJ, if I'm doing 100 mph climbing out, I might actually have a harder time seeing a 6" wide white poll than a 25' wide green tree. Must be my eyes.

I'm just curious, by the way. Why must every one of you Canadian posters mention Mr. Russell's "resources"? It's hilarious, like he is opposite to all those "poor" warbird owners like Paul Allen, Mike Potter, Jerry Yagen, Dan Friedkin, etc.

Rich

Rich
It's a classic " you have to be there to understand the situation"
and you definitely do not know what you are talking about.
We have tried to give everyone an accurate assessment of the incident but you insist on twisting what we are saying to satisfy your own agenda
You seem to be one that enjoys being negative and you also seem to have an issue with Canada. Why ? who cares. Glass houses buddy glass houses
I mentioned his resources because he has them. The people that are the resources happened to be there at the time. Yes, he like many that you mention also has the money to act quickly and repair the a/c. Not all people can do that.
At no time did anyone try to belittle any other prominent warbird people.

Anyway try being happy for a change you might like it.
All you are doing here is belittling yourself

I will leave you with two lessons I learned very early in life.
1) you have the right to complain but use maturity if you do.
2) never get into a pissing contest with a skunk

So to support the other poster above , I say "whatever" , your opinions thus far not really worth listening to.
Oh and you can save the B.S. reply .......

Now back to the actual topic at hand.

[JDK]

Mod post: General remarks about other nations and lawmaking (or indeed one's own) are not helpful or necessary.

Quite understandably it offends people and we end up with a pointless argument rather than addressing the topic.

I don't expect to always agree with other warbird professionals and enthusiasts outside the topic, and it seems no-one else should. So please keep your opinions regarding lawmaking etc. to yourselves.

We all have freedom of speech in our environments. That comes with the freedom to keep it quiet for harmony and the freedom to accept the consequences of what we say - which might not be to our liking.

Let's keep on topic.

Thank you.

[richkolasa]

Rich
It's a classic " you have to be there to understand the situation"
and you definitely do not know what you are talking about.

Well, I do know that one of the contributing factors to my 1400+ successful takeoffs and landings is that no insane nutjob tried to deliberately obstruct any.

We have tried to give everyone an accurate assessment of the incident but you insist on twisting what we are saying to satisfy your own agenda

That "agenda" is that people should not try to cause air-crashes because they don't like their neighbor. Ooops, my bad. LOL.

You seem to be one that enjoys being negative and you also seem to have an issue with Canada. Why? who cares.

I have no "issue" with Canada, I love Canada and have wonderful friends there. None of them try to kill innocent people, btw.
If you don't care, why do you keep replying/quoting/editing my quotes?

Glass houses buddy glass houses

I really don't know what that means, but since I'm often in warbirds, maybe "glass cockpits buddy" might be more appropriate?

I mentioned his resources because he has them.

He has two arms too, like most warbird owners/pilots. Why not mention that "the two-armed Mr. Russell....". Let me tell you why, because you have some kind of "issue" with Mr. Russell, so you try to bolster your pathetic argument by impugning him. Same with the "he won his money" garbage. Pure childish envy of those with more than yourselves. Not liking someone really shouldn't be a reason to support creating a public safety hazard feloniously.

At no time did anyone try to belittle any other prominent warbird people.

No, just the person who's airplane was targetted by an insane prick.

All you are doing here is belittling yourself

I don't think you can do that, actually.

I will leave you with two lessons I learned very early in life.

No thanks, I have too many intelligent, successful friends to be influencd by. I think I'll pass on your "words to live by".

I say "whatever", your opinions thus far not really worth listening to.

But still you keep posting and quoting and posting and quoting.

Oh and you can save the B.S. reply .......

No b.s., just point by point refutations.

I'm happy when in a warbird where no insane people are trying to damage/down it. I think that's pretty normal. Defending the person trying to do the harm/damage...well, that's for a psychiatrist to determine.

Have a nice night.
Rich

[JDK]

Have a nice night.

Mod post: The matter is closed. Further point counter point discussions other than pertaining to the accident directly will cause the poster problems.

This is the fair warning.

[Simcoe Warrior]

Fleet,

If memory serves me correctly, there were two Finches at the Russell airshow, I was just wondering which one was yours? Was it the one that was posted to Windsor Mills EFTS during the war?

[Fleet16b]

Fleet,

If memory serves me correctly, there were two Finches at the Russell airshow, I was just wondering which one was yours? Was it the one that was posted to Windsor Mills EFTS during the war?

We had two Fleets at the show.
Mine is a Fleet 16r ( 160 hp Kinner r55) #4494 served at #4 EFTS
The other is owned by the Tigerboys it is a Fleet 16b ( 125 hp B5 Kinner) # 4488

[Robbie Roberts]

Did I mention this is the first time I have been on TV?

(Monty Python...)

Robbie
just for something completely different...
Stress relief- had to be done...

[54H60]

Date: 2009-06-05

Further Action Required: No

O.P.I.: System Safety

Narrative: The privately-operated 1624772 Ontario Inc. (Russell Aviation Group) Messerschmitt BF-109E-4 aircraft (C-FEML) was departing on a local VFR post-maintenance test flight from the Niagara Falls (Niagara South) Airport (CNF9). On departure, the aircraft struck a tall flag pole located approximately 100-150 feet off the end of the runway. The pilot was able to circle and made an emergency landing without further incident. T.S.B. advised.

User Name: Donaldson, John

Date: 2009-06-19

Further Action Required: Yes

O.P.I.: Maintenance & Manufacturing

Narrative: UPDATE Supplemental information received from T.S.B. Initial Notification [#A09O0100]: The Messerschmitt Bf-109-E4 airplane (CF-EML) was taking off on runway 01 at Niagara South airfield on a local functional check flight prior to participation in an air display scheduled for later in the week. Runway 01 is a grass surface, 3,700 feet in length. There is a 40-foot high flag pole located 100 feet beyond the departure end of the runway on the extended runway centreline. It is NOTAMmed. The pilot was aware of it and planned to pass above it and to the right of it. Shortly after take-off, when the generator cut in, it produced a few sparks that momentarily distracted the pilot with the result that the airplane was below and left of the intended departure path and the left wing struck the flag pole two feet below the top. The airplane landed safely. The pole struck between two ribs between the machine gun installation and the slat on the left wing. The D-section leading edge skin was torn back about 6 inches. Adjacent ribs and the false spar behind it were damaged. Primary structure was not affected.

[6trn4brn]

So then would the next course be for Mr Russel to offer the farmer a generous amount for the field beyond the end of the runway? Or has he already and the farmer turned him down?

[Bill Greenwood]

The grass strip at Niagara South is mostly north south. At the north end there are some low trees and bushes. The are taller to the of rnwy 10, at the NW corner. That is where the wooden pole was built. It's about like a telephone pole, pretty tall, but not so much of a problem because it is over by the trees. The pilot can see the trees and will either be above them or over to the east a few feet..

The smaller metal pole is much more of a problem. Just to the north end of the airport there is a ditch and then a narrow dirt road. Just past this road it where the adjacent landowner built a concrete base with the metal pole sticking out of it, up perhaps 25 feet. This pole was directly in the line of takeoff to the north or landing to the south. The pole is harder to see, especially out of a Spit or 109.

I have had 4 flights there and all takeoffs were to the South when the pole was there. I did land the Spitfire once to the south with the pole in the way. It was doable, to come on left base and turn inside the flagpole as you rollout out on final, but it is not easy or without worry. I don't think I have ever concentrated more on a landing than that one. The good thing is that the strip is pretty wide, and if the landing is good, it is not a problem, but is keeps you on your toes. It happens pretty quickly from that decision point on base until you are safely rolling out. If you hit the right wingtip on either pole while landing it may well be all over.
When John hit on takeoff to the north, the impact was only just feet outside of where the prop arc was. Impact there would probably have been a bad wreck, in bad ground.

[DoraNineFan]

So then would the next course be for Mr Russel to offer the farmer a generous amount for the field beyond the end of the runway? Or has he already and the farmer turned him down?

If allowable under Canadian law, I would have thought the next course of action would be to sue the farmer for everything except his undershorts if it can be proven that the flagpole was erected with malicious intent. Somebody could die next time.

[6trn4brn]

DoraNineFan...from what I understand about the post by 54H60, the authorities are not putting any blame on the farmer. I am certain that Mr Russell has the resources and prior knowledge of the court system to be able to ascertain whether further litigation is prudent. I guess my point would be to put the whole issue to rest at minimum cost to Mr Russell would be to make a generous offer to buy the land from the farmer and then give John Romaine a chainsaw that he could have his way with to take down the poles permanently

[Iclo]

To have know similar trouble in non aviation, where people put thing to restrains or complicated access to place. I think that yes, a "friendly" solution of buying the field is probably the better way to the people directly involved.
But the trouble of this way of solution, is that didn't prevent to happen anymore in other place. A good trial to gain the destruction of the flag pool will have the good bonus to send a message to other "proximity" fields owners in the country: "Don't play with aviation security, or you will have real trouble" A sort of a good example making