Anybody need a project? Martin Baker MB.5 for sale......

Steve T · **Posted:** Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:45 pm

Interesting!

...Now for whoever buys the quasi-MB5 to hitch one of those Allison-engined "pull" tractors firmly to each end of the fuselage, give 'em the gas, and carefully stretch the thing out to its proper length... :roll:

Seriously, I wonder what the chance would be of successfully re-engineering the replica to look "right"? I expect it would be easily enough done if a static museum display item was wanted...but as a flyer?? Hope we're able to "track" what happens with this. Very curious what the selling price for such an utter one-off piece will be, too...

S.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:14 pm

I am not at home, so don't have my flight test book; BOSCOME DOWN, A MOST SECRET PLACE. However, I remember the test of the original Maritn Baker and while it had some potential, it did not, beyond any doubt, outperform late Spits like the 24 or 47, and nor the Spitfeul or Seafang, which had about the ultimatepiston performance, but not easy to handle or as docile as early Spitfires. It would be great to see this replica fly, but it has the potential to be dangerous.

marine air · **Posted:** Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:03 pm

Back in the 1980's there was a good ole' boy in Texas that put an R-2800 on a T-6 airframe, and was building it up to "go a racin." Some Big Brain guy from the city went out to his strip and calculated that the C.G. was so far forward that if they ever started the engine it would go over on it's nose!
My point is, is it a sound effort from an engineering standpoint? If so, then it may fly, and perform quite well. Probably be able to run circles around some of the slower fighter types. Maybe the fuselage was shortened because of aft C.G. or other problems with the prototype MB-5's
.
My guess is that it still has much to go internally, hydraulics, cables, coolant lines etc. I hope it will fly, as it would be interesting and fast.
It may end up being parted out for it's "unobtanium" P-51 parts. In the photos it clearly has a lot of P-51 parts on it.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

marine air wrote:

My point is, is it a sound effort from an engineering standpoint? If so, then it may fly, and perform quite well. Probably be able to run circles around some of the slower fighter types.

I remember this project being started in Chino many years ago after John Marlin sold his Mustang (now Sizzlin' Liz). John had a lot of original data and had blown up original photos and 3-view drawings to get the proportions for everything. The wing came off the crashed RB-51 Red Baron Griffon Mustang as I recall.

Another recollection I had was that John had talked to Bruce Boland about this project and Bruce had given some advice about how to set the aircraft up. Prior to wild speculation I would suggest any prospective buyer to talk to John and get the straight story.

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:10 pm

marine air wrote:

Maybe the fuselage was shortened because of aft C.G. or other problems with the prototype MB-5's

I very much doubt that. There was one prototype MB-5, and Capt Eric Brown rated it extremely highly, only criticising its lateral handling qualities. For info on the original MB-5, I recommend Brown's 'Wings of the Weird & Wonderful', Airlife.

It's pointless arguing if it was slightly better or slightly worse than any of the other late W.W.II fighter types - it was up there with the best; no argument (according to those, like Brown who flew it and evaluated it) an amazing achievement for a small company, and it scored over many others in terms of it's production potential (a rare achievement in British aircraft) and its serviceability where it was held to be an example of good practice for everyone else. It was a fascinating, brilliant design, well worth learning about.

When Warbirds Worldwide ran an article on John Marlin's project, it was stated he'd received significant help from Martin Baker themselves. Why the aircraft deviated from the design of the MB-5 in the fuselage seems mystifying, but I doubt it can be due to a performance insight not granted to the original designers.

Scotty G · **Joined:** Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:46 pm **Posts:** 134

Ok, I understand the backlash that this isn't a real MB-5. Fine. But c'mon, people... Some of you throwing darts don't have an airplane or have never worked on one.

At least John had the guts and determination to give it a go and get it this far. Others talk. He has 'done.'

We might not like it, but then again, it's not our airplane.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

JDK wrote:

Why the aircraft deviated from the design of the MB-5 in the fuselage seems mystifying...

Maybe his hangar was too short? :lol:

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:10 am

bdk wrote:

JDK wrote:

Why the aircraft deviated from the design of the MB-5 in the fuselage seems mystifying...

Maybe his hangar was too short? :lol:

S'funny coming from the man claiming the looongest T-6 restoration...

Mark V · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:00 am

Scotty G wrote:

But c'mon, people... Some of you throwing darts don't have an airplane or have never worked on one.

Scotty, surely you are not suggesting that these are pre-requisites for being able to express an opinion on an airplane currently offered for sale (and an extremely unusual one at that) on a 'discussion forum'?

Scotty G · **Joined:** Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:46 pm **Posts:** 134

Mark V wrote:

Scotty G wrote:

But c'mon, people... Some of you throwing darts don't have an airplane or have never worked on one.

Scotty, surely you are not suggesting that these are pre-requisites for being able to express an opinion on an airplane currently offered for sale (and an extremely unusual one at that) on a 'discussion forum'?

No, I said nothing about that. And stop calling me Surely... :wink:

Mark V · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:23 am

Scotty G wrote:

No, I said nothing about that.

OK Scott - its just your line "Some of you throwing darts don't have an airplane or have never worked on one." that had me fooled for a minute there!

Scotty G · **Joined:** Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:46 pm **Posts:** 134

No, it's just that there was some negativity there about the project. I say give the guy a break. So he didn't say "replica" in the ad. Big deal. I think I was clear in the message that he had a vision and he went for it.

In my book, that deserves a lot of credit. Pretty simple.

Y'all have a good one!

gregv · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:18 pm

marine air wrote:

It may end up being parted out for it's "unobtanium" P-51 parts. In the photos it clearly has a lot of P-51 parts on it.

Just out of curiousity, and since I'm no Mustang expert, how many P-51(D model only I guess, since the A/B/C/H are different) parts are there that aren't being made from new? I would have thought by now that things like doghouses, spinner backing plates, radiator cores/side plates, landing gear mounting trunnions (or whatever they are called), wing spars, propellor blades etc. could all be bought off-the-shelf or at least made to custom order. I guess there must still be some parts not available unless original, but I wonder what they are, besides some of the Government Furnished stuff.

cheers

greg v.

Roger Cain · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:59 pm

After forwarding this ad to a few buddies of mine, I received a note from a buddy who spoke to the owner today, John Martin, and it was his wife who put the ad in barnstormers. He isn't actually looking to sell it, but if the right $$$$ came along... He plans to finish it, although that may be a long time down the road still.

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:00 am

Roger Cain wrote:

...it was his wife who put the ad in barnstormers...

That must be a great domestic dinner conversation. "Dogonne it honey, I can't figure why I'm getting calls about selling ma 'plane."

"Well sweetie..."

Greg,
Why not start a new thread with the question? I recall a similar exercise was written up by Richard Paver in aeroplane magazine about Spitfires. IIRC, only the prop hub was not available or manufactured 'new'.

Cheers

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Anybody need a project? Martin Baker MB.5 for sale......

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