Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:28 pm
there is a j-3 in the lake of the ozarks, but nobody know how to scuba dive down there..at least I couldnt find anyboby
Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:26 pm
Hi--
There is a surviving GE-23 Goblin; the CanCar demonstrator ended up down south (Nicaragua iirc), was recovered in the early sixties and is now on display at NMNA, painted as the fundamentally identical FF-1. I forget the name of the gent who tracked the Goblin/"Fifi" down, but my hat is off to him for his uncommon foresight.
The Corsair would probably indeed be a nonstarter; NHC would trot out the terms of Lend-Lease if it were a Royal Navy airframe and simply refuse permission were it USN. The RCN did not operate the Corsair. Most (all?) RN Corsairs were Goodyear FGs though...would be very cool indeed if somehow this one could be raised more or less intact and find a home at Akron.
The Lake Erie Bolingbroke was visible until 1977 on a shallow "shelf" near shore when lake levels were low. That winter was unusually severe and the ice dragged the airframe into deep water, quite probably crushing it in the process. (There are a fair few unrestored Boly airframes already high and dry anyway. CWH alone have parts of at least nine.)
The Seafire, I'm guessing, is the HMCS York instructional/display airframe (SR464 iirc), rumoured to have been deep-sixed in Toronto's outer harbour? That'd be a marvelous thing to find...could fill a big, big hole in the collection at Shearwater...on which topic, anyone know where a Fury could be dredged up??
S.
There is a surviving GE-23 Goblin; the CanCar demonstrator ended up down south (Nicaragua iirc), was recovered in the early sixties and is now on display at NMNA, painted as the fundamentally identical FF-1. I forget the name of the gent who tracked the Goblin/"Fifi" down, but my hat is off to him for his uncommon foresight.
The Corsair would probably indeed be a nonstarter; NHC would trot out the terms of Lend-Lease if it were a Royal Navy airframe and simply refuse permission were it USN. The RCN did not operate the Corsair. Most (all?) RN Corsairs were Goodyear FGs though...would be very cool indeed if somehow this one could be raised more or less intact and find a home at Akron.
The Lake Erie Bolingbroke was visible until 1977 on a shallow "shelf" near shore when lake levels were low. That winter was unusually severe and the ice dragged the airframe into deep water, quite probably crushing it in the process. (There are a fair few unrestored Boly airframes already high and dry anyway. CWH alone have parts of at least nine.)
The Seafire, I'm guessing, is the HMCS York instructional/display airframe (SR464 iirc), rumoured to have been deep-sixed in Toronto's outer harbour? That'd be a marvelous thing to find...could fill a big, big hole in the collection at Shearwater...on which topic, anyone know where a Fury could be dredged up??
S.
Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:37 am
Just an update
The 4 engine bomber that I mentioned , has been located.
Air bags were attached and it has been moved to a shallower location.
At present, due to lack of funding etc, there are no plans to raise the a/c.
Speaking with my friend, he has a couple of more interesting wrecks located.
A Dh Rapide in a river, a barge with 5 crated Hiurricanes in another and a B-25 that slide across an iced over lake and ended up on the shore where is still sits today.
As always funding is a problemfor these types of projects.
The 4 engine bomber that I mentioned , has been located.
Air bags were attached and it has been moved to a shallower location.
At present, due to lack of funding etc, there are no plans to raise the a/c.
Speaking with my friend, he has a couple of more interesting wrecks located.
A Dh Rapide in a river, a barge with 5 crated Hiurricanes in another and a B-25 that slide across an iced over lake and ended up on the shore where is still sits today.
As always funding is a problemfor these types of projects.
Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:36 am
it should be noted that the sheer weight of the zebra mussels that infest the great lakes are collapsing both plane wrecks & ship wrecks alike. i've talked to wreck divers on this side of lake erie. picture 30 thousand little shells per square foot on every surface under water, each on average the size of a human's thumb nail.
Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:45 pm
What really drives me nuts is the Navy has all the resources needed to save these historical artifacts, and is too stupid to do it.
Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:33 pm
muddyboots wrote:What really drives me nuts is the Navy has all the resources needed to save these historical artifacts, and is too stupid to do it.
I absolutely agree. What do you think their issue is: shortsightedness, denial, task aversion, or just the point of view of the current regime?
Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:44 pm
It's been a long term problem, so it's not the current regime. Rather I would put it down to Navy ways. They probably also don't want to get people sneaking in and salvaging burial sites. Pulling wrecks will open that door a crack. Risk aversion is anoth issue. Who is responsible for these warbirds plowing into crowds at airshows? It's the lawyers. Always the lawyers 
Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:44 pm
I have no idea of the US Navy's reason, this is just a thought. As stupid as it sounds, is it possible they don't want any controversy over where aircraft they recover go? Like I said, extremely stupid idea, but I've heard stranger things in the past!
Too bad about the Lake Erie Boly, my Dad told me about when he was young and at their cottage on Lake Erie he saw it while scuba diving. That story fueled my imagination and my dreams of one day finding a wreck and restoring it. After that I learned about the time, money, effort, political nonsense etc, which has only slightly dettered me
This may be an interesting site to check out, it's the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association Dive Recovery Team, not only looking for Harvards, but any wrecks. http://www.chaa-recovery.ca/
What is this 4 engine bomber? Sounds like there'd be an interesting story behind how it ended up there.
Too bad about the Lake Erie Boly, my Dad told me about when he was young and at their cottage on Lake Erie he saw it while scuba diving. That story fueled my imagination and my dreams of one day finding a wreck and restoring it. After that I learned about the time, money, effort, political nonsense etc, which has only slightly dettered me
This may be an interesting site to check out, it's the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association Dive Recovery Team, not only looking for Harvards, but any wrecks. http://www.chaa-recovery.ca/
What is this 4 engine bomber? Sounds like there'd be an interesting story behind how it ended up there.