Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:59 pm
That's a very good explanation by Mike ...
I've always thought of it this way, as rough administrative equivalents. As outlined by Mike, I believe the Luftwaffe Staffeln and Gruppe were composed of smaller numbers of pilots/aircraft than their US counterparts, for example, so that could be a reason their "Gruppe" weren't as prominent:
Staffel = 336th Fighter Squadron
Gruppe = 4th Fighter Group
Geschwader = 65th Fighter Wing, which the 4th FG was assigned to under the 2nd Air Division of the 8th Air Force.
... but unlike the Luftwaffe system rarely are the individual 8th AF fighter groups mentioned in conversation as belonging to it's parent administrative "Wing". There is an important distinction, however, with the 8th AF fighter wings in that the groups within the different fighter wings all had similar "styles" of unit ID, e.g., the 66th Fighter Wing groups all had checks on their noses: 55th, 78th, 339th, 353rd, and 357th.
Oh, another tidbit in case you were wondering ... the period after the numeral or number, such as 7./JG 1 is German shorthand for "th" or "rd", as in "7th Staffeln/JG 1".
FWIW,
Wade
PS: I don't have my books in front of me, but I guess it was about the time the AF stepped out from the Army's shadow and became a separate branch that not only did they change the uniform (idiots!), but they decided that "Wing" should replace "Group" ... and then starting in the 90s after the Cold War was won and stand down from Alert the service now had time to go through an identity crisis (Gate guards now "Elite Gate Guards" ... do the Navy SEALs have to tell everybody they're "elite"? And remember the uniforms? No star in your chevrons until Sgt. rank (stupid looking) ... E-7 "senior NCO" stripe now on top with E-8 and E-9s (goofy lookin'). General officer's stars on the shoulders, no, the sleeves like the Nivey, no, back to the shoulders ... name tags, no name tags ... uniform cut to look more "businesslike" and less "military" (huh?) ... make up yer dammind!), so the AF put velcro on their headquarters signs, e.g., 2nd Bombardment Wing ... 2nd Bomb Wing ... 2nd Wing ... 2nd ...
... keep the tankers with the bomb wings for support ... move the tankers to a different base to keep the base open ...
Come to think of it, the Luftwaffe system was pretty dang simple, don't you think?
I've always thought of it this way, as rough administrative equivalents. As outlined by Mike, I believe the Luftwaffe Staffeln and Gruppe were composed of smaller numbers of pilots/aircraft than their US counterparts, for example, so that could be a reason their "Gruppe" weren't as prominent:
Staffel = 336th Fighter Squadron
Gruppe = 4th Fighter Group
Geschwader = 65th Fighter Wing, which the 4th FG was assigned to under the 2nd Air Division of the 8th Air Force.
... but unlike the Luftwaffe system rarely are the individual 8th AF fighter groups mentioned in conversation as belonging to it's parent administrative "Wing". There is an important distinction, however, with the 8th AF fighter wings in that the groups within the different fighter wings all had similar "styles" of unit ID, e.g., the 66th Fighter Wing groups all had checks on their noses: 55th, 78th, 339th, 353rd, and 357th.
Oh, another tidbit in case you were wondering ... the period after the numeral or number, such as 7./JG 1 is German shorthand for "th" or "rd", as in "7th Staffeln/JG 1".
FWIW,
Wade
PS: I don't have my books in front of me, but I guess it was about the time the AF stepped out from the Army's shadow and became a separate branch that not only did they change the uniform (idiots!), but they decided that "Wing" should replace "Group" ... and then starting in the 90s after the Cold War was won and stand down from Alert the service now had time to go through an identity crisis (Gate guards now "Elite Gate Guards" ... do the Navy SEALs have to tell everybody they're "elite"? And remember the uniforms? No star in your chevrons until Sgt. rank (stupid looking) ... E-7 "senior NCO" stripe now on top with E-8 and E-9s (goofy lookin'). General officer's stars on the shoulders, no, the sleeves like the Nivey, no, back to the shoulders ... name tags, no name tags ... uniform cut to look more "businesslike" and less "military" (huh?) ... make up yer dammind!), so the AF put velcro on their headquarters signs, e.g., 2nd Bombardment Wing ... 2nd Bomb Wing ... 2nd Wing ... 2nd ...
... keep the tankers with the bomb wings for support ... move the tankers to a different base to keep the base open ...
Come to think of it, the Luftwaffe system was pretty dang simple, don't you think?
Last edited by Chicoartist on Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.
????
Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:09 pm
you think the AAF was bad try following the lineage of a Navy Sqd.
VF-17 Jolly Rogers was reformed after the 2 pacific tours has a Hellcat sqd with only the # and name in common. VF-17 later became VF-84 Jolly Rogers which had nothing to do with the original VF-84 Wolf Gang.
When VF-84 was disestablished the VF-103 Sluggers were stripped of their name, insignia and heritage and renamed VFA-103 Jolly Rogers. When my last sqd VA-128 Golden Intruders were disestablished a EA-6B sqd was stripped of it indentity so the name would carry on VAQ-128 Golden Prowlers (?) no Fighting Phoenix 
VF-17 Jolly Rogers was reformed after the 2 pacific tours has a Hellcat sqd with only the # and name in common. VF-17 later became VF-84 Jolly Rogers which had nothing to do with the original VF-84 Wolf Gang.
When VF-84 was disestablished the VF-103 Sluggers were stripped of their name, insignia and heritage and renamed VFA-103 Jolly Rogers. When my last sqd VA-128 Golden Intruders were disestablished a EA-6B sqd was stripped of it indentity so the name would carry on VAQ-128 Golden Prowlers (?) no Fighting Phoenix