Warbird Information Exchange

Mike,

Thks for the link, really interesting makes the point I was saying about it being difficult to get firm information after 60+ years.

So no trip to Rumania is on the cards next summer, maybe somewhere in the new states of the old Yugoslavia there might be parts languishing in a scrap yard, but somehow I doubt it.

And yes it would take a lot of space to store 4 a/c of this size, I have come accross many spoof adverts for various a/c like this in the past, coupled with the occassional "you pay me money I give you location of very rare a/c with war history" usually it is just a scam or wishfull thinking.

Stuart

A little history on the Fi 167;
On Dec. 28 1936 the keel of "carrier A" was laid on slip number 1 at Deutsche Werke Kiel.
Early in 1937 Arado and Fieseler submitted proposals to meet a spec. issued for a 2 seat multi-purpose shipboard a/c that was to be an all metal biplane with folding wings,stressed for adiving speed up to373mph,an offensive load of 1100lbs, a max speed of no less than186mph, a cruising speed of 155mph, and a range of no less than 620 miles. 3 prototypes were ordered from each company,they were the Ar 195 and the Fi 167 designed by Reinhold Mewes to be built at the Fieseler plant at Bettenhausen.
The prototypes of both a/c werecompleted in the summer of 1938, but the Ar 195 was unable to meet the performance criteria due to serious drag issues which turned out to be too fundamental for the Arado design team to rectify without substantial redesign. Meanwhile the Fi 167 V1 and V2 exceeded the official requirements in every respect during test flying at Rechlin.(Max speed-202mph, cruising speed-168mph, range-808m(932 w/droptank) and a 2205lb bomb load).
As a result further developnent on the Ar 195 was abandoned and a pre-production series of 12 Fi 167A-0s were ordered. (As the trials of the Fi 167 V1 and V2 were soo successful Fieseler decided that it was unnecessary to complete the third prototype.)

On Dec 8 1938 "carrier A" was launched and christened Graf Zeppelin, as it was not expected to be commisioned before the summer of 1940 construction of the Fi 167A-0 series recieved no special priority wiyh flight testing, beginning with TJ + AJ, not starting untill early 1940. By this time it was decided that the dive bombing role was to be filled by the Ju 87C-0, the Fi 167 being relegated to torpedo bombing and recon.

In May 1940 construction on the Graf Zeppelin was halted, but the constrution of the 12 Fi 167A-0s was continued with, all of the a/c accepted by the Luftwaffe in the summer of 1940 with Erprobungsstaffel (test squadron) 167 being formed for operational trials.

In late Sept. 1941 the 11th a/c KG + QE was loaned to the Daimler-Benz test center at Echterdingen for various engine trials.

On May 13, 1942 the order was given to resume construction of the Graf Zepplin. By this time E-Staffel 167 with 9 Fi 167s on strength had been transferred to Holland for advanced service trials in Dutch coastal areas.
But the decision had been made to adapt the Ju 87D into a torpedo bomber as the Ju 87E making the Fi 167 redundant.

The Fi 167s remained in Holland untill early 1943 being involved in experimental work including testing various overwater camo schemes. E-Staffel 167 then returned to Germany where it was disbanded, the remaining Fi 167s were returned to Fieseler for overhaul.

3 Fi 167s were then delivered to the DVL ( German Aviation experimental institute) undercarriage test center at Budweis, where they were used for measuring landing shocks under various load conditions. The a/c were flown as both biplanes and as highly loaded sesquiplanes(!) with the lower wings being removed outboard of the u/c with extra struts supporting the upper wings (I assume this was testing to destuction).

The few remaining refurbished aFi 167A-0s were then sold to.................(?)

It would be nice to get a definative answer to the end of this, can anybody help?

When I was a guest of Flugwerk two weeks ago I met a very interesting German gentleman engineer, who's company amongst other things has for a long time been very active in the restoration and re-manufacturing of expensive old & rare sports car engines, including major components/'castings'. (eg pre war Mercedes)

Amongst other projects, they have been planning in detail for some time to remanufacture Daimler Benz 601 and 605's. They have already been manufacturing airworthy major 'difficult' components for that series. He indicated that the first complete engines would be available next year. I understand that they also make components for the RR Merlin and Formula 1 car engines.

I like many others for a long time was under the old misconception that the large castings which form the heart of the major assemblies for high power piston Aeroengines of that era, would be uneconomical to reproduce on a small limited production scale. (I myself am in mechanical engineering and have been for 23 years, so I know the questions to ask) I won't go into the details of how this company recreate their 'major 'castings' using the very latest modern manufacturing techniques, other than to say that they will not be made by a casting process and will be more dimensionally accurate than the originals and from better specified modern materials. (They will not be CNC milled from a solid block either! before you ask, as this could not replicate the many cores and voids in a traditionally manufactured crankcase casting)

Very exciting developments indeed.

AndyG,

Thks for the info on the DB engines, I think if this gentleman is successfull, then there are going to be a lot of happy people around, and it may make the lesser axis types more attractive than they are at present.

Stuart

I would think the main casings and cylinder heads would probably be the "easiest" to create. The basic process is relatively simple in principle though of course you would need a foundry capable of doing it. I think it would be all the little precision pieces that would be costly and difficult to produce.

These opinions are my own or belong to the voices in my head.

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