Jeremy Clarkson is not all that bad

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

If you delve a little deeper, Ryan, you will find that Harry Hawker was the chief test pilot of Sopwith. Due to the mass cancellation of military orders after the First World War, and the failure of substantial civil orders to materialise due to huge numbers of ex-military aircraft being made available at very low prices, T.O.M. Sopwith was forced to wind up his company in 1920. Later that year, he formed a new company, on the same site, with largely the same directors, and named after Hawker (who was tragically killed the following year).

So the company was in effect a continuation of the Sopwith company, formed in 1912, and you can add such illustrious types as the Camel, Pup and Snipe to Andy's list, a list continuing right up to the current Sea Harrier FA2 and Hawk.

Andy in Beds · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:52 pm

Mike wrote:

If you delve a little deeper, Ryan, you will find that Harry Hawker was the chief test pilot of Sopwith. Due to the mass cancellation of military orders after the First World War, and the failure of substantial civil orders to materialise due to huge numbers of ex-military aircraft being made available at very low prices, T.O.M. Sopwith was forced to wind up his company in 1920. Later that year, he formed a new company, on the same site, with largely the same directors, and named after Hawker (who was tragically killed the following year).

So the company was in effect a continuation of the Sopwith company, formed in 1912, and you can add such illustrious types as the Camel, Pup and Snipe to Andy's list, a list continuing right up to the current Sea Harrier FA2 and Hawk.

That makes it nearer seventy years for Sopwith/Hawker/Hawker Siddeley.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

Andy in Beds wrote:

For me personally I can't think of a Grumman design I actually dislike.
The Bearcat has to be a favourite though.

My own personal favourite is possibly the Hellcat, but it is a real privilege to see the 4-ship Grumman Cat formation at Duxford several times a year. Superb aircraft all.

And then there's the absolutely stunning F-14 Tomcat, which I was lucky enough to see a handful of times at the late, lamented Mildenhall Air Fetes. Sadly, the F-14 too is shortly to become a museum piece (at least in the US, I believe a handful of Iranian examples continue in front-line service)

Andy in Beds · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:05 pm

Hi
While I'm on the subject of Bearcat's. Does anyone know of a book showing pictures of Bearcats operating with the Aeronavale from the carriers of the French navy? Post WW2 the French Navy operated a surplus British Light Fleet carrier The Arromanches (ex HMS Colussus). I know they operated Hellcats and Helldivers (also Avengers) from this ship but I'm not certain about the Bearcat--although they were equipped with them.
The French also operated (at different times) two ex-USN Independance class carriers. One was Belleau Wood and I forget the other.

Did either of these ships ever operate French Bearcats?
Cheers
Andy

setter · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:10 pm

Hi

As another Flypast Forum free, beautiful day dawns in Brisbane - I return to the Keyboard refreshed anew having stayed up most of the night setting up the new mega blaster home theatre surround system so as to spend a productive morning - you guessed it - watching aircraft DVDs in style.

And what do I see - it's just like it used to be only better - Andy, James and the Col with help from others helping put world peace back a few more generations.

All of this rubbish about who is better the Spit or a Tbolt or B17. Crap.

Clearly the best aircraft producers of the last 100 years are Australian !

James I am very very dissapointed in you and moves are now afoot to question your admitance to the land of your alledged birth.

Starting with Hargraves , Hawker, Smithy etc and great aircraft manufacturers Such as DAP , CAC and Parkers(I built a very nice Airfix Seafire through the week). James where is your soul man! Accept it - if you were born here stand up for you heritage - yes the Poms and Yanks try hard but how can you compare them to us - its unfair. I mean the Poms do their best in most things but they haven't actually struck a blow at much since WW11 and I don't think I was born when they could win a cricket match and as for the Yanks well not only are they poor at making really good aeroplanes - they don't even play Cricket so what bloody good are they!!

Andy you might also like to ask the Col about the little machine he was hooked up to whilst he was convalesing apparently it had lots of wires and current hooked up to it and gave one or two young ladies a bit of fun whilst they were giving him "therapy".Iv'e heard of performance management but thats just a little too far!!!

Anyway don't kill anybody - Scott has enough to worry about keeping up with the traffic - no arguments OK - Now to DVDs- I think I will start with Leg ends 2004 and then on to BoB - Toodle Pip chaps

Kindest regards
John P

Andy in Beds · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:28 pm

Col. Rohr wrote:

Andy in Beds wrote:

Hi
While I'm on the subject of Bearcat's. Does anyone know of a book showing pictures of Bearcats operating with the Aeronavale from the carriers of the French navy? Post WW2 the French Navy operated a surplus British Light Fleet carrier The Arromanches (ex HMS Colussus). I know they operated Hellcats and Helldivers (also Avengers) from this ship but I'm not certain about the Bearcat--although they were equipped with them.
The French also operated (at different times) two ex-USN Independance class carriers. One was Belleau Wood and I forget the other.

Did either of these ships ever operate French Bearcats?
Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy,

The French Carriers where the following
Arromanches Ex-HMS Colossus
Bois-Belleau Ex-USS Belleau-Wood
Lafayette Ex-USS Langley

The French didn't have awhole lot of the Bearcats most of their carrier base fighters where either AU-1s or F4U-7.

The Bearcat where basically land base aircraft thou I've seen a photo of bearcats on the Lafayette i think they were on their way to Nam for deployment.

Cheers RER

Thanks for that Col Rohr.
In my other life as a model ship builder (allegedly) I've a bit of thing for 1/350th and 1/400th scale carriers. I have an Arromanches on my 'to do' list. That's why I'm interested in what was flown off certain ships.
Cheers
Andy

Andy in Beds · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:32 pm

setter wrote:

Hi

As another Flypast Forum free, beautiful day dawns in Brisbane - I return to the Keyboard refreshed anew having stayed up most of the night setting up the new mega blaster home theatre surround system so as to spend a productive morning - you guessed it - watching aircraft DVDs in style.

And what do I see - it's just like it used to be only better - Andy, James and the Col with help from others helping put world peace back a few more generations.

All of this rubbish about who is better the Spit or a Tbolt or B17. Crap.

Clearly the best aircraft producers of the last 100 years are Australian !

James I am very very dissapointed in you and moves are now afoot to question your admitance to the land of your alledged birth.

Starting with Hargraves , Hawker, Smithy etc and great aircraft manufacturers Such as DAP , CAC and Parkers(I built a very nice Airfix Seafire through the week). James where is your soul man! Accept it - if you were born here stand up for you heritage - yes the Poms and Yanks try hard but how can you compare them to us - its unfair. I mean the Poms do their best in most things but they haven't actually struck a blow at much since WW11 and I don't think I was born when they could win a cricket match and as for the Yanks well not only are they poor at making really good aeroplanes - they don't even play Cricket so what bloody good are they!!

Andy you might also like to ask the Col about the little machine he was hooked up to whilst he was convalesing apparently it had lots of wires and current hooked up to it and gave one or two young ladies a bit of fun whilst they were giving him "therapy".Iv'e heard of performance management but thats just a little too far!!!

Anyway don't kill anybody - Scott has enough to worry about keeping up with the traffic - no arguments OK - Now to DVDs- I think I will start with Leg ends 2004 and then on to BoB - Toodle Pip chaps

Kindest regards
John P

Don't mention bl**dy Australia here tonight. England lost today in both Rugger disciplines to that unmentionable country.
Although you were damned lucky in the game at Twickers--I thought.
Cheers
Andy

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:34 pm

Quote:

Hi James
is there any chance of a 'signed by author' copy of 'The Book of the Pusser's Duck' when I see you on Tuesday? It'll be be a kind of memento of you after you leave for the ex-penal colony in a couple of weeks.
Cheers
Andy
PS Your lot were lucky I thought at Twickers this afternoon. Don't forget you owe me tenner in advance for next Summer.

You can have a signed copy, if I've got any left! They're going fast and I'm not packing any either. Yeovilton on Monday. I think they'll be interested in it...

It was a fiver you'll be paying me at the next Ashes, mate.

Setter (et al) Cricket trivia Q! Who was the first international cricket match between? (Clue: One got stuffed by the other in the last (Ice) Hockey bonaza at Salt Lick...)

As for Aussie aircraft, I declare an interest M'lud. Grandparents worked for CAC. Guess there'll be some MMP books on fine Aussie products soon...

Andy. Talked to the library at Le Bourget about your French Navy problem (hem)?

Cheers

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:05 pm

Quote:

How does one go about getting one of your books or being a Yank we are not allowed such treats

Hi Col,
Happy to arrange for you to buy one, as they are for sale worldwide if you can flex plastic, or through other methods of barter if required! Just go to www.mmpbooks.biz and follow the instructions. It should be mainerproofed, but we are happy to make repairs / hit the site with a crowbar if you don't recieve a book out of the candy slot... Also, of course, all good bookshops (worldwide) will have copies (I wish!)

full details at http://mmpbooks.biz/books/8391717895/8391717895p.htm

Advert over.

Probably.

Ryan Harris · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:11 pm

Yeah I saw that the Hawker lineage goes back to Sopwith but Andy mentioned Hawker specifically so I only focused on that and Grumman.

If you count the "extra" companies then both are still going completely strong. Grumman actually came out of the Loening Aircraft Company when three Loening workers (Leroy Grumman being one) decided not to follow Loening on a move and set up their own company. Grumman Aircraft Corporation officially was set-up in 1929. 1931 was the flight of the first aircraft, the FF-1. After all this time, the company is now Northrop-Grumman and the Bethpage facility is still open. The interesting part is that the Grumman name still exists whereas Hawker has disappeared inside BAe, along with several other British companies. So from 1929-2004, I'd say thats pretty darn impressive. The Sopwith/Hawker/now BAe would be I believe 1923-2004. So if you count the extra companies, Hawker has the edge but if you count just Hawker and just Grumman, then Grumman has a serious edge.

It all depends on how you split the hairs.

Ryan

dhfan · **Posted:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:36 pm

All the best aeroplanes were built at Stag Lane and Hatfield.

Similar to Sopwith and Hawker, de Havilland goes from the (Airco) D.H.2 to the D.H.146. I don't care what BAe called it, it was a Hatfield design. That's quite a long time too.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

dhfan wrote:

D.H.2 to the D.H.146. I don't care what BAe called it, it was a Hatfield design. That's quite a long time too.

I thought that one was really an Avro??? RJ or something??? :wink:

I've got a book here on DH. It goes 'Moth, Moth, Moth, more Moths, Mosquito (ah, THERE's an aeroplane, now you're talking!

), Comet (and we all know what happened to them), some funny little wooden jets, a few aluminium tubes of various sizes stuffed with seats, and then it just stops.......

I've got another on Supermarine. Some bizarre contraptions that look like the result of a collision between a Moth and a houseboat (and most of them seemed to finish their lives back as houseboats or caravans), one superlative fighter, than that one fizzles out with a couple of unspectacular jet fighters.

Any more nominations? Otherwise the winner, by default, is Hawker!

dhfan · **Posted:** Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:45 am

There was slight pause while I looked for a smilie that showed my views on them re-naming the '146 the Avroliner.

There isn't one.

DamienB · **Posted:** Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:31 am

Yes there is - :vom:

Downunder · **Posted:** Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:47 am

Well, For my two cents worth.
All the Hawker aircraft rock!!! ( Especially the Typhoon!!)
Dispite my namesake, Sydney Camm was a genius.

Sir Sydney once said, "The main requirements of an aircraft designer were a knowledge of aerodynamics, some elementary maths, and an eye for beauty."

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Jeremy Clarkson is not all that bad

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