Return of the "Cursive" Memphis Belle

[Matt Gunsch]

it is not that we don't like the general, we don't like him threatening to sue someone because they have a airplane painted like one in the museum. To me that ranks right up there with boeing demanding a fee from model companies because they produce a B-17 model. Sorry guys, that design and name were paid for by the US Taxpayers, it is owned by them, and not by boeing. The AF never copy righted the name and has no right to tell anyone how they can paint their plane.

The General screwed the pooch on that one when he could have worked with the owner of the B-17 and used them to help promote the restoration of the Memphis Belle, and the AF museum.

[ZRX61]

Given the thousands of B17s built it does seem somewhat bloody strange to have THREE of the buggers about.

& as for the comment I read about painting one up as Hells Angels... a certain bike club has that name trade marked etc...

[Jack Cook]

no different that retiring a sports legend's number. Hey whay can't there be another #3 for the Yankees or #21 for the pirates?

No, but they'll sell one of those there jerseys to anyone who wants one.

[RyanShort1]

I'm beginning to wonder if the thread should be retitled Curse've Belle...

*Ducks*

Ryan

[rwdfresno]

If you don't like it then when the restoration is finished, and she is placed on display, don't go see it. It's that easy. It sucks here on the Wix when some thing you fought to save and have moved and restored is put down at every turn. People here don't like the Gen. Fine. THere are alot worse out there in the warbirds world. The General might not be liked, but he is what that museum needs. He got several buildings built, more on the way, and saved several aircraft. He has added to the class of the museum. He has added numerous aircraft to the collection. YOu think real die hard people here would be happy about the Belle Being saved, yet all they want to do is bitch. Having the Belle's paint job reserved for only her is no different that retiring a sports legend's number. Hey whay can't there be another #3 for the Yankees or #21 for the pirates? Oh that's right, they are legends. Just like this aircraft.
_________________

Well I happen to think what a private enterprise does with their own property is a bit different than what a public entity does with things the taxpayers own are entirely different.

You know I'm not beating up on you or the museum as I think we are friends who can disagree. I am plenty excited about the work that is done at the NMUSAF but that doesn't mean I have to happy about every policy just to support the mission. Really the move by the NMUSAF to trademark that name Memphis Belle and the artwork is no different than if they were to sue Chrysler for using the name "Jeep" just because some GIs during WWII invented the term. You can debate your FEELINGS about using the name all you want but I think there are certain principals that should take precedence over emotion.

[mustangdriver]

Jack you can buy those shirts because as dumb as it may be to you, people have heroes. They want to believe in that. It doesn't make it wrong to have a hero that is famous.
We are all entitled to our opinions, but it is rare to find anything positive said here about our national museums which for the most part do an amazing job. The NMUSAF did not threaten to sue the owners of the movie Belle for having it painted that way, but for presenting it as THE MEMPHIS BELLE". Once again, I was a crew member on this aircraft years ago, and yes it was on several occasions presented as the real aircraft. I was there saw it with my own eyes, heard it with my own ears, and corrected it when I could. They suggested repainting the nose art, but did not threaten them over a paint scheme.
I agree that you can do what you want with it if it is yours, but I think it is funny how in one thread we are baching the NMUSAF for saying that someone can't do what they wish with their aircraft, yet in another are pissed a Jack for not painting his P-51 in a certain color scheme. One standard will do just fine. MY theory is this is far beyond the Gen and the museum. If the real combat aircraft exists, then it should be the only one to carry it's markings. There are a ton of F models that served that should and could be honored by the DT B-17, but you know why it isn't repainted? That is right, they are making money off of the name.

[mustangdriver]

If you don't like it then when the restoration is finished, and she is placed on display, don't go see it. It's that easy. It sucks here on the Wix when some thing you fought to save and have moved and restored is put down at every turn. People here don't like the Gen. Fine. THere are alot worse out there in the warbirds world. The General might not be liked, but he is what that museum needs. He got several buildings built, more on the way, and saved several aircraft. He has added to the class of the museum. He has added numerous aircraft to the collection. YOu think real die hard people here would be happy about the Belle Being saved, yet all they want to do is bitch. Having the Belle's paint job reserved for only her is no different that retiring a sports legend's number. Hey whay can't there be another #3 for the Yankees or #21 for the pirates? Oh that's right, they are legends. Just like this aircraft.
_________________

Well I happen to think what a private enterprise does with their own property is a bit different than what a public entity does with things the taxpayers own are entirely different.

You know I'm not beating up on you or the museum as I think we are friends who can disagree. I am plenty excited about the work that is done at the NMUSAF but that doesn't mean I have to happy about every policy just to support the mission. Really the move by the NMUSAF to trademark that name Memphis Belle and the artwork is no different than if they were to sue Chrysler for using the name "Jeep" just because some GIs during WWII invented the term. You can debate your FEELINGS about using the name all you want but I think there are certain principals that should take precedence over emotion.

We are buds, and the next time we meet up, it is beers on me.

[Randy Haskin]

For the sake of comparison, this is how the "other" side of Sally B looks in the UK ....

Why do they have that on there? I was just looking at the Sally B this weekend at Duxford, and to me, it really cheapens the airplane to have the "Belle" noseart on there.

[warbird1]

I think that every warplane that has either the word, "Belle", "Bell", or "Bale" and every airplane that has the word, "Memphis" in it should be repainted so as not to confuse the uneducated public about the real "Memphis Belle". Also, all airplanes built by Bell should immediately be put into hangars out of public sight.


So, that means that Kermit Weeks will need to repaint his P-51C, "Ina the Macon Belle".

The Liberty foundation will need to repaint their B-17, "Liberty Bell".

Every Bell P-39 and P-63 flying in the world needs to redesignate the aircraft manufacturer to something other than Bell or be put into hiding in some hangar or storage facility out of public view.

Every warplane with the word "Memphis" in it or any other town in Tennessee should be repainted.

All of these are necessary in order to prevent confusion with the real "Memphis Belle".

There, are all of you happy now?

[mustangdriver]

I think that every warplane that has either the word, "Belle", "Bell", or "Bale" and every airplane that has the word, "Memphis" in it should be repainted so as not to confuse the uneducated public about the real "Memphis Belle". Also, all airplanes built by Bell should immediately be put into hangars out of public sight.


So, that means that Kermit Weeks will need to repaint his P-51C, "Ina the Macon Belle".

The Liberty foundation will need to repaint their B-17, "Liberty Bell".

Every Bell P-39 and P-63 flying in the world needs to redesignate the aircraft manufacturer to something other than Bell or be put into hiding in some hangar or storage facility out of public view.

Every warplane with the word "Memphis" in it or any other town in Tennessee should be repainted.

All of these are necessary in order to prevent confusion with the real "Memphis Belle".

There, are all of you happy now?

[6trn4brn]

What about Taco Belle???

Seems as though we are beating a dead horse again. However, I wish the "Good" General could somehow see the marketing bonanza that he is passing up with the displays that go with "The Movie Belle". How is it seen as a bad thing that they are telling people where "The Real Belle" is? I would guess that more people are gonna see "The Movie Belle" at airshows than will be able to make the trip to Dayton to see "The Real One". Again, I would love to have someone giving me free advertising on my product. (Yeah, that sounds bad...referring to The Belle as a product!)

And...I think we all hope that there are many more people working at the NMUSAF as passionate as you are mustangdriver...whether we agree with you or not. Take the criticism and comments with a grain of salt and try to remember how hard it is for someone to change your mind before you try to change others. Have a nice day

[hang the expense]

The story I am getting is DTs 17 will be repainted in 100 th BG markings at some point.It needs the cheek guns put on it as well.That nose just doesnt look right for an airplane depicting a combat bird.

[mustangdriver]

Any one remember the old nose art it had? It was a very cool looking nose art. With all Belle talk aside. Why not honor the man who helped save this B-17 by painting it in his markings?

[rwdfresno]

Good Lord people.

But how many of you knew that "H*ll's Angels" actually did it first in the ETO. (besides Jack )

While many of us did know about "H3LL's Angels" those who didn't were educated by posts similar to this. That is why discussions like this aren't the big EVIL discussion that many want to label it as. I think it shows a closed mind and lack of maturity when people can't have a simple disagreement and discuss opinions without everyone going away mad or decrying a tragic misstep of the WIX community. The purpose of an open forum is to get the input of many. For those who want a one sided conversation I suggest starting a blog.

Ryan

[Randy Haskin]

Better yet, how many of you, or the beloved public know that a B-17 by the name of "Knock-out Dropper" (B-17F #41-24605 359BS) was the first B-17 to complete 50 missions (16 Nov 43) and 75 missions (27 Mar 43).

Certainly not with the same crew...