"Red Tails" movie

[Django]

OH GOD NO, not ALL CGI!

[p51]

OH GOD NO, not ALL CGI!

Well in all fairness to Lucas's point of view, it is cheaper and safer to 'fly' planes in a computer. But folks like us know that a la "Pearl Harbor," planes don't really fly like spaceships do in sci-fi movies. There's a slow grace to the movements that lacks in CGI efforts. Sure, a real plane is going hundreds of miles an hour and snaps and rolls, but when they do it via CGI, it's a LOT faster than even in real life.
As for the HBO movie, I couldn't get past the fact that everyone was wearing shearling jackets and the P-51s in the background were plywood cutouts, like in Memphis Belle (but not nearly as effective as in MB)! CGI has to be better than that was!

[mikoyan29]

If done right, I think CGI can catch it. And I think Lucas can pull it off.

[warbird1]

CGI is pretty darn good these days, but not quite there yet. Back in 2000, around the time that Pearl Harbor was being filmed, Steve Hinton was quoted in interview as saying that the days of CGI replacing real airplanes was fast coming. He said then that it would be about 10 years before CGI would have equivalent visual qualities as the real deal. That was 8 years ago and we're fast approaching. Could the last aviation movie with real airplanes already have been made?

The real thing will always look better. With the cost of insurance, liability and fuel, it's no wonder that Lucas will use CGI instead of airplanes. They will probably save a lot of money doing so.

I do wish they would use real airplanes, though.

Pearl Harbor is the best example of how NOT to do CGI. It was absolutely horrible and unrealistic.

[Jerry O'Neill]

But as things are, with the CAF redtail soon to return to her element, Mr Lucas will have two camera-ready Cs that weren't even on the radar at the time of HBO's version.

S.

With shooting planned for Eastern Europe, don't expect Lucas to foot the bill for two P-51B/C' to be shipped over there just because they already have red paint on their tails!
Look out CGI, here comes "Flyboys II"!
Jerry

[AviaS199]

OK I am going to rant a little.

Wasn't there already a picture with the Tuskeege airmen? Why do another? Maybe focus on another group (4th, 325th, 356th etc. etc.) that deserves credit as well? Of course I understand what these heroes had to overcome just to fight for their country but in my opinion all the attention they get downplays what other airmen did during the war to the general public. Im not saying they should not be recognized but lets spread the coverage out a little.

Well, I'll have to take issue with that, just a little. There were a lot of movies made about the other squadrons and groups - and Hollywood screwed them up, too. The Red Tails have a grand total of two films made about them - the wartime propaganda film, "Wings For This Man," narrated by some old Warners contract player by the name of Roggin, or something like that - and the HBO film, which suffered from a skimpy budget and a trite script. It's almost like saying, "Well, gee, why write another novel about the WASPs, when Janet Dailey's romance novel about them was SO AUTHORITATIVE!"

As an amateur aviation historian, I still like the idea of "the story you haven't heard." Despite the HBO film, there are still plenty of folks who don't know the story of the Red Tails. I'm in favor of telling any number of aviation stories, including, but not limited to:

Jesse Leroy Brown
Arthur Chin
The WASPs
Ben Kuroki
Bessie Coleman
The Brazilian Air Force flying P-47's in Italy
The Mexican Air Force flying P-47's in the Pacific

In any event, I don't think these films would detract one bit from the accomplishments and sacrifices made by others, any more than another flying film would detract from the contributions of the ground troops, sailors, or Marines. Just my two cents.

I also agree - CGI has its place, but it can't replace the real thing. Frankly, I'd prefer half- or three-quarter scale RC models over some cartoonlike computer image. That's MY rant!

[Cripes A Mighty]

All valid points for sure. Perhaps I am biased towards other groups as Im sure most of us are.

Yeah, Hollywood botched a bunch of em, that's for sure. So bad that it hurts to watch. I will say even though the movie Fighter Squadron was totally fictional (with references to a couple actual events) and cheezy at that, I still enjoy watching it. Something about seeing all those colorful Thuds flying for the camera.

What about a movie about the 352th at Asch, Cactus Air Force at Guadalcanal or as mentioned a film about the Wolfpack. What I really want to see on the big screen is a good film about wake island and VMF-211. Ok so sue me I am biased.

And yeah I have to agree with everyone else about CGI......cool but not that cool.

[Django]

At least we know it will be better CGI than SciFi's "warbirds"...

Dogfights is excellent, so I guess throwing a Lucasfilm type budget at it means it has a good shot at having believable flying sequences... but Mustangs don't move like X-wings!

[Randy Haskin]

Lets not forget that movies are made to MAKE MONEY.

You guys can all take your own $10 million and make your own flick about whatever fighter or bomber group you want.

In the mean time, film makers like Lucas and Spielberg will stick to making movies that Joe Public will open their wallets and pay $10 to see. That takes mass appeal, and in today's cultural climate in the US a movie on the Tuskeegee guys will do well, I'm sure.

It's not about correctly re-telling history. It's about making art and making money at it. It's a business.

[Mike]

Randy,

Your comment reminds me of something a friend of mine, who was involved in the flying for 'Flyboys', said to me at the time the movie came out.

It went along the lines of "If you and I made a movie about flying, it would be the best one ever made. The flying sequences would be fantastic, every historical detail would be correct, and it would cost the dozen or so of us who went to see it after it was released $1m each for our tickets!"

[Jesse C.]

Lets not forget that movies are made to MAKE MONEY.

You guys can all take your own $10 million and make your own flick about whatever fighter or bomber group you want.

Only $10 million? That would not even begin to cover the marketing fees!

Wether we like it or not is beyond our control, Lucas will make a movie of whatever he likes because it is his deal. As for CGI replacing aircraft in the air, that is fine with me because honestly, how many owners would want their birds totally wrung out in the sky?

And almost every major plane flick has lost a bird during production.

So give Lucas a break and rent "Howard the Duck"! That should put you at ease

[Steve T]

Many very valid points on here...and two things come to mind, both of which cause me to cut Mr Lucas some slack here.

1. Remember the sudden forward leap in "SPFX" that Star Wars represented...31 years ago? Nobody gave Mr L much hope for more than a colossal (at the time) flop; Fox took a chance anyway, and the movie swept the tech side of the '77 Oscars and kickstarted a film genre and an industry.

2. As I mentioned above, Red Tails has been on Mr Lucas' radar since about 1990 and possibly even before that. Could it be that the long gestation of the project has been for the purpose of letting CGI catch up to Mr L's vision for the film? ILM is on the leading edge of that technology. I'm prepared to venture that this film could be to air-combat movies now what the first Star Wars was to sci-fi in its day: a real leap. (And if so, what better subject than a group of pilots who were pioneering too...)

S.

[Django]

That was the reason for episodes 1-3 coming later too.

[Randy Haskin]

That was the reason for episodes 1-3 coming later too.

Zing!

Too bad they didn't hold out for better writing and actors.

[CH2Tdriver]

FWIW I liked Flyboys and I thought that was the best CGI to date as far as airplanes are concerned. They got the lighting right which is what usually kills it, and the movement was good (although there was some hot debate at the time on how manueverable those planes really were.) But the important thing is that there were REAL airplanes on the set which is what made it believable. Very nice Nieuports and 3 Brisfit F2B's! And the Dr1's on the airfield, take off and landing scenes etc....

There was some flying, such as that chase scene in the weeds between the Nieuport and Dr1 where they buzzed the church, or the Dr1's attacking the manor house. Interspersed CGI is ok. I'll give Lucas the benefit of the doubt but CGI should be used to enhance a movie not be the end all.

And what about the ground scenes? Will the actors be strapping into fiberglass replicas ala the John Wayne Flying Tigers film kind?

Well see......