Flight Restrictions By EU on Dakotas & Others

daveymac82c · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:34 pm

I wish I could just walk up to the person responsible for creating these regulations that we've all taken offence and say:

"Hey, you may not know it, but this effects the vintage aircraft and warbird world greatly, so please ammend the regulations to have all aircraft vintage/warbird exempt from the newly created laws of weather radar, oxygen masks, parachutes, etc. I'll call you tomorrow to make sure you got it done. Oh, and don't worry about getting approvals from every level of government, my suggested changes make sense, so go ahead and do it."

After saying the above few sentances to a RATIONAL individual, they would look at the effect it has on our vintage/warbird world and how the regulations were not even intended for us, or with us in mind. Then the changes would be made creating a blanket exemption for all vintage/warbird aircraft.

In addition, for the off chance that there are vintage/warbird aircraft flight planning to fly above 10,000' they are already required to have oxygen available to those on board.... just like the laws already state. So a non-issue, right?

Sigh. I wish I could have 5 minutes of someone's time of whom could make the changes. 5 minutes of my time, 5 of theirs, problem solved, everyone happy!

Woah... was I sleeping? Or was I day dreaming? Back to reality I guess.

Cheers,

David

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:40 pm

CAPFlyer wrote:

k5083 wrote:

Such paranoia!

August,

The problem is that the "unintentional consequences" is what is wrong with 99% of the laws passed today. Had anyone actually thought about what a blanket law like that (or any other) might do, then we wouldn't have as many pointless laws that really do nothing more than make a talking point for the politicians.

Let's look at this rationally -

1) Lawmakers have no business writing laws pertaining to a regulated industry. That's why we have the JAA in Europe afterall - to regulate the aviation industry.

2) This law is simply copying what's already in the JAA regulations for required equipment. The law is already in place that any aircraft operating in the EU must meet JAA safety and airworthiness standards. Why do we need ANOTHER law telling operators and designers they need to have the same safety equipment they're already required to have to operate or certify an aircraft that will be flying into the EU?

This is the problem with so many laws today. They either affect people they "didn't intend to" (which leads to more laws) or they intentionally affect people that never did anything to deserve it without affecting those whom need to be affected (i.e. gun laws)

There's an interesting book about this same problem in the agricultural industry called Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal by Joel Salatin - which is a really good read, BTW. I got into some stuff in the genre related to the family ranch.

Ryan

k5083 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:20 pm

I dunno, I guess some of the disagreement here results in the difference in perspective of a lawyer versus, say, an aircraft mechanic. As a lawyer when I see a law that doesn't work, I roll up my sleeves and get to work fixing it, at least to the point where I or my clients can operate reasonably. If I didn't know the system and have the skills, perhaps I too would make silly cynical statements about what politicians do or don't think or do, get hysterical about how regulations threaten the freedoms won in WWII, etc. etc.

Similarly, if an airplane breaks, I suppose I'm likely to whine and complain about it whereas a lot of you guys would just get out your tools and go fix it.

August

k5083 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:30 pm

David,

I hope you realize that what you said is that you dream of becoming a lobbyist!

For the love of god, man, snap out of it!

August

Forgotten Field · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:33 pm

K5083,
Why hasn't Budweiser made a commercial like the "this one's for you" series, and called it "Mr. Hard-Working-Law-Fixing-Lawyer?" "So open a cold one, while you're billing $275.00 an hour and chasing your paralegal around the office. The Constitution is your playground, the court your battlefield. Common Law?- Uncommon Interpretation by you. People drink our beer because of you. So open a cold one on us, Mr. Hard-Working-Law-Fixing-Lawyer, cause this one's for you."

k5083 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:36 pm

[Duplicate post]

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:36 am

Robbie Stuart wrote:

Simply keeping the Dakotas in condition for aerial displays or film work will cost as much as 100,000 pounds an aircraft a year, Parr said.

Oh bull sugar... :roll:

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:16 am

And you know how much about EU and UK airworthiness requirements and insurance costs?

Sorry to sound so sarcastic, but knowing several people over there and the information that's already been presented in this thread, how can you say something like that? The EU's insurance laws, especially for vintage aircraft, and the UK's airworthiness requirements just for a "show" aircraft are much more expensive than they are here. The FAA actually thinks that an aircraft operator has a vested interest in flying an airworthy aircraft and won't knowingly put an airplane that might kill himself into the air. However, the UK and EU seem to have the opposite belief. Everything they've done seems to be directly aimed at protecting the owners from themselves because they believe that they'll fly anything with wings whether it's airworthy or not and the only way to prevent that is make sure every one is flown and maintained like a British Airways, Air France, or Lufthansa airliner.

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:09 am

Actually upon rereading that thread my comment was misplaced and I apologize for that. It is hard to believe though that the bueracrats would make it that impo$$ible to operate. In Canada a Dak doesn't even have to have a balanced field to operate out of as it's grandfathered, as should be in the case in this instance in Europe.

k5083 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:16 pm

Forgotten Field,

Brilliant! Never mind Bud, I think WIXLA will adopt that one!

August

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