F3F questions experts please

[kenlyco]

Tight formation.

[Dan K]

Also, didn't the RCAF fly a variant of the F3F called the Goblin?

Very close. The RCAF indeed flew the Goblin I, but it was a Candian-built version of the Grumman FF-1. The F3F was a newer design than the Goblin.

[The Inspector]

Having seen Tischlers 'craftmanship' and 'design engineering' first hand, personally I'd be scared to death to have anything done by his 'crack team' even sitting on my hanger floor let alone be dumb enough to fly it-'close enough' isn't even close enough on his projects.

A lot of the problems with 'WHITE 1' were caused by the 'craftsmen' @ TAF being full blown hacks of the first water-if I were involved in the TAF work on WHITE 1, I'd claim that I was in jail for child molestation rather than admit I produced that P.O.S.

Didn't the Ki 84's he built have serious troubles like gear collapsing on the second taxi test due to 'metal fatigue' and it took GOSHAWK a long time to correct the TAF 'engineering issues' after the project was taken away from him by the customer?

'put down that axe Eugene'

[marine air]

There were two Tischlers you know. Herb and Oscar. The father built the Curtiss P-6 replica with original Curtiss V-12 engine. It was at Oshkosh and was truly outstanding. The father was also responsible for the F3F's and I thought they looked every bit as good as factory workmanship. The son took over on the Me-262 and the Oscars.

[VCS1]

That is an interesting point about the TAF. I have looked at the KI-43's and the F3F's up close and was not that impressed as well. Over the years I have tried to follow the various projects that were undertaken at the TAF; F3F, ME262 and finally the KI-43's. In terms of ambition, trying to replicate an American, German and Japanese design ranks pretty high in my book. However the execution of this ambition leaves a bit to be desired.

I have tried to study what exactly went wrong at this facility during my own evaluation of building a replica fighter. It seems that while an invidually built SINGLE aircraft was possible to maintain quality standards upon, this was not the case during limited or mass construction. The normal "checks and balances" of a properly regulated aircraft manufacturing environment (Quality inspectors, manufacturing engineers ect) simply did not exist. Things like documentation (routers/travellers) procedures (RII inspections of flight critical parts ) engineering (design review and documented revisions) and finally training (training classes, documented training records) were not accomplished. Things were done "the old fashioned way". Thus as more complex aircraft (ME-262) or technically challenging (KI-43)were attempted the "system" at the TAF could meet the demand. To be fair ,this an expensive and time consuming way of doing things, but in the end a much better and safer product is produced.

For my continuing research, I would like to know what others think of the "quality" of any of the TAF's projects and where they feel things could of been done differently.

[Warbird Kid]

VCS1, Seems were on the same page with new builds. Id love to see longer production lines on new builds out there. Im not talking crazy orders, but a fair example that can be created in a timely manor. I love your ambition to what you are trying to recreate. Just wish we had more money to hire and train a core set of workers that would become the lifeblood of a company of this type. Though like you said, the quality cant falter. So what could you do for say, a 6 Ki-84 production build line? How many jigs? How many workers would you need if you destined the production life cycle to take no more than 4 years to produce all 6? Again, Im just putting out some questions that were in my head to be answered by others interested. Heck, if we can figure out the logistics of many of these obstacles, then who knows what we can accomplish?

Chris

[warbird1]

So what could you do for say, a 6 Ki-84 production build line? How many jigs? How many workers would you need if you destined the production life cycle to take no more than 4 years to produce all 6? Again, Im just putting out some questions that were in my head to be answered by others interested. Heck, if we can figure out the logistics of many of these obstacles, then who knows what we can accomplish?

Chris

Unfortunately, everything boils down to money. It's really simple. The more money you have to spend, the faster, and easier it is to accomplish the task. If you have unlimited amounts of money, you could probably build an "extinct" warbird type in very short order. Money will dictate the building of new parts and hiring the specialized types of labor and skills necessary to accomplish this task.