Tri-State Warbird FW-190

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

Bill Greenwood wrote:

I can see a lot of areas that I would want to have checked out by experts before I risked my life and an expensive airplane by flying it. First, it is not a Focke Wulf, it is a replica of a 190. It may be a close replica, but there are differences. For instance where the Center of Gravity? You have a non original engine, is it heavier or lighter or mounted differently than the original? Is the CG safe, how will it handle the first time you stall it? And I sure would want to do a few stalls up high to plan the approach speed to use before landing, also how it handles slow flight and a go around. And it is not built in the original FW factory, is the quality up to standards? Is the airfoil as it should be, the gear geometry, etc.? All that being said, I'd sure love to sit in it and taxi it.

Check out their web site to get a little bit better understanding of Flug Werk!
http://flugwerk.de/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1iY2oQT ... re=related
http://flugwerk.de/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGSxosU9N5c

I dont think C/G is a problem.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:55 pm

262, That is not the same plane on the video that is at TRI State is it? if not then we see one of the same type flying, that makes it likely the Tri State one will be ok, but it still has to be assembled, controls hooked up, tanks and hoses tight, etc. As for C G instead of hoping or guessing, it might be a good idea to weigh the plane to know what you've got. In the flight video we don't see any stalls and I don't see any flaps. Does it have flaps? I'd think they would be important to lower landing speed.

marine air · **Posted:** Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:28 pm

Heck, give me a flight manual and I'll fly the darn thing!
It has the same airfoil as the Grumman Hellcat and Tigercat and should show similarities in steep turns and stalls. Second, what is it's wing loading and takeoff weight with full fuel? WHere is the CG on the aircraft and how do the brakes work?
All kidding aside, I think the plane was offered as a kit for $550k USD. I think it included everything except engine, accessories, wiring, propellor, avionics,and I believe, hydraulic lines. That's a lot of work remaining.
If I had the resources I would buy the kit and take it to Nelson Ezell or a similar shop and have them finish it out. I trust Flug Werks workmanship and new build is a good thing.
As for the Me-262, this is just a guess, but I think they are not the easiest aircraft to fly for fun. Same engines as a 20 series Learjet but no spoilers, thrust reversers, drag chute, or anti-skid braking. No yaw dampener for adverse yaw on the engines (a grounding item if inop on a 20 or 30 series Lear). Auto pilot?
No flight simulator or two place available for familiarization and checkout. I have seen a Lear 25 climb with the VSI pegged at 6,000 fpm and 400kts in the climb leaving Dallas with 10 people on board, luggage and musical instruments, gross weight. What do you think that Me-262 would climb at ?

M.P. · **Posted:** Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:10 pm

Some small pictures of the FW 190 at Tri State:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=233267

Lynn Allen · **Posted:** Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:48 pm

marine air wrote:

Heck, give me a flight manual and I'll fly the darn thing!
It has the same airfoil as the Grumman Hellcat and Tigercat and should show similarities in steep turns and stalls. Second, what is it's wing loading and takeoff weight with full fuel? WHere is the CG on the aircraft and how do the brakes work?
All kidding aside, I think the plane was offered as a kit for $550k USD. I think it included everything except engine, accessories, wiring, propellor, avionics,and I believe, hydraulic lines. That's a lot of work remaining.
If I had the resources I would buy the kit and take it to Nelson Ezell or a similar shop and have them finish it out. I trust Flug Werks workmanship and new build is a good thing.
As for the Me-262, this is just a guess, but I think they are not the easiest aircraft to fly for fun. Same engines as a 20 series Learjet but no spoilers, thrust reversers, drag chute, or anti-skid braking. No yaw dampener for adverse yaw on the engines (a grounding item if inop on a 20 or 30 series Lear). Auto pilot?
No flight simulator or two place available for familiarization and checkout. I have seen a Lear 25 climb with the VSI pegged at 6,000 fpm and 400kts in the climb leaving Dallas with 10 people on board, luggage and musical instruments, gross weight. What do you think that Me-262 would climb at ?

Nelson would make it right...... :wink:

Lynn

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

Bill Greenwood wrote:

262, That is not the same plane on the video that is at TRI State is it? if not then we see one of the same type flying, that makes it likely the Tri State one will be ok, but it still has to be assembled, controls hooked up, tanks and hoses tight, etc. As for C G instead of hoping or guessing, it might be a good idea to weigh the plane to know what you've got. In the flight video we don't see any stalls and I don't see any flaps. Does it have flaps? I'd think they would be important to lower landing speed.

I'm not sure if the FW (Flug Werk) 190 in the video is the Tri-state bird I do know that the video was the first flight. They were offering the 190 as a "kit" I believe this lowered the cost plus put the airplane in a different category for certification. The LBA must have different requirements for flight certifications before an aircraft can be delivered, we had to fly 10hrs off to prove to the FAA that the 262 was airworthy. So if people are taking deliveries of the 190 I don't know if they are flown first disassembled then delivered then reassembled then flown? In our dealings with the LBA they were very thorough with the airplanes certification i.e. paperwork materials practices etc. Check out the picture flaps..check...assembled..check. This one was in England at the time of this picture IIRC and might be the Tri-state bird?

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:54 pm

That is the Blair aircraft. AFAIK FW machines are engine run, but not flown before being passed to the new owners.

Dave

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:08 pm

In the video of the flight we see one landing after a brief lift off above the runway. It looks like it handles well, sort of like a Bearcat touching down 3 point.

I remember some combat reports that the real 190 had a pretty abrupt stall under high g and some pilots were lost that way trying to stay with Spitfires in tight turns at low altitude. I would be surprised if the wing airfoil in the original was the same as a Hellcat. The Hellcat is reputed to be good at slow flight, but maybe not optimal for speed. I think the 190 design was more of a high speed attack plane than a dogfighter. It is also possible that the new built 190 has a different and benign wing design airfoil.

I asked Bud Granley about his flight in the new 262, but he couldn't tell that much as the plane was out of trim.

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

Bill Greenwood wrote:

In the video of the flight we see one landing after a brief lift off above the runway. It looks like it handles well, sort of like a Bearcat touching down 3 point.

I remember some combat reports that the real 190 had a pretty abrupt stall under high g and some pilots were lost that way trying to stay with Spitfires in tight turns at low altitude. I would be surprised if the wing airfoil in the original was the same as a Hellcat. The Hellcat is reputed to be good at slow flight, but maybe not optimal for speed. I think the 190 design was more of a high speed attack plane than a dogfighter. It is also possible that the new built 190 has a different and benign wing design airfoil.

I asked Bud Granley about his flight in the new 262, but he couldn't tell that much as the plane was out of trim.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 190 has similar flight characteristics as the bearcat since Grumman used a captured 190 as a starting point for the bearcat.

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

marine air wrote:

Heck, give me a flight manual and I'll fly the darn thing!
It has the same airfoil as the Grumman Hellcat and Tigercat and should show similarities in steep turns and stalls. Second, what is it's wing loading and takeoff weight with full fuel? WHere is the CG on the aircraft and how do the brakes work?
All kidding aside, I think the plane was offered as a kit for $550k USD. I think it included everything except engine, accessories, wiring, propellor, avionics,and I believe, hydraulic lines. That's a lot of work remaining.
If I had the resources I would buy the kit and take it to Nelson Ezell or a similar shop and have them finish it out. I trust Flug Werks workmanship and new build is a good thing.
As for the Me-262, this is just a guess, but I think they are not the easiest aircraft to fly for fun. Same engines as a 20 series Learjet but no spoilers, thrust reversers, drag chute, or anti-skid braking. No yaw dampener for adverse yaw on the engines (a grounding item if inop on a 20 or 30 series Lear). Auto pilot?
No flight simulator or two place available for familiarization and checkout. I have seen a Lear 25 climb with the VSI pegged at 6,000 fpm and 400kts in the climb leaving Dallas with 10 people on board, luggage and musical instruments, gross weight. What do you think that Me-262 would climb at ?

501241`White 1 power from J85-17 2850 lbs thrust, Tango Tango Cj610-9 3100 lbs thrust. rate of climb 7000ft per min. I believe VNE is about 540kts.

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Tri-State Warbird FW-190

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