Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:53 pm
Very awesome.
Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:33 pm
When it sat partially covered as seen in that first photo, John used to run the engines. I have a piece of coloured home movie that I bought of one of the engines running.
mossie
Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:38 pm
What a time capsule.How 'bout the p-40s?
Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:03 pm
Yeah, James is on the mark with that one.
The Mossie was not built to last. And the glues they used to hold the wood together were good, but not as good as they are now.
The effects of weather really effect the Mosquito and even examples that have been mostly hangared since retirement can have signs of deterioration of the glue. The second to last time I visited Bob Jens and his Mossie, he mentioned that he had the airplane scanned again to triple check for any signs of the glues seperating. Everything's looking very good on it.
With John's example, when eventually worked on (I can only assume), it'll most likely be fairly well taken apart and looked over. I also assume that his Mossie isn't a candidate to be a flyer. Maybe it is, I'm not too learned about what it takes.
Now, I can't remember too well, but didn't the Mosquito really suffer when it was operated in hot conditions like Northern Africa, as well as in really wet climates?
Cheers,
David
The Mossie was not built to last. And the glues they used to hold the wood together were good, but not as good as they are now.
The effects of weather really effect the Mosquito and even examples that have been mostly hangared since retirement can have signs of deterioration of the glue. The second to last time I visited Bob Jens and his Mossie, he mentioned that he had the airplane scanned again to triple check for any signs of the glues seperating. Everything's looking very good on it.
With John's example, when eventually worked on (I can only assume), it'll most likely be fairly well taken apart and looked over. I also assume that his Mossie isn't a candidate to be a flyer. Maybe it is, I'm not too learned about what it takes.
Now, I can't remember too well, but didn't the Mosquito really suffer when it was operated in hot conditions like Northern Africa, as well as in really wet climates?
Cheers,
David
Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:27 pm
daveymac82c wrote:Now, I can't remember too well, but didn't the Mosquito really suffer when it was operated in hot conditions like Northern Africa, as well as in really wet climates?
I'm ready to be corrected on this, but humidity or damp, not heat, was always the issue. However the first Aussie-built Mosquitoes were not glued properly, the builders not getting it right for various reasons, resulting in in flight structural failures and deaths. Also there's mention of several Canadian built Mosquitoes disappearing on the delivery flight to Europe for reasons unknown - perhaps fuel explosions.
As to the efficacies of the glues, I'm told the casein glue is still a good glue provided it's used and maintained properly. The wartime urea-formaldehyde has been surpassed by more modern synthetic glues.
The RAAF Museum's Mosquito rebuild (to static, original) is using the West System marine glue.
Re: mossie
Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:19 am
hang the expense wrote:What a time capsule.How 'bout the p-40s?
Whilst very historic, especially the Gloria Lyons aircraft, neither can be considered as time capsules I don't think. Rememebr they sat at Rukuhia for about 30 years in the graveyard before John got them. At least they didn't go into the smelter with the others. And let's face it, we have one of the best P-40 rebuilding industries in the world in NZ if he decides to smarten them up.
Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:18 am
As James says, glue was one of the biggest problems with the earlier Mosquito aircraft, but it wasnt the only one. Aircraft that were operated in very hot, humid conditions also suffered from structural failure.
The use of the later glues did a lot to improve matters.
I had always thought that the aircraft under discussion had been cut in a number of places in order to get it home - notably outer wings and rear fuselage, but this may be apocryphal! Can anyone confirm?
The comment above that the RNZAF Museum are keeping an eye on it may explain there complete lack of progress on their own aircraft over many years!
John is actually English, and comes from the Black Country (West Midlands).
The use of the later glues did a lot to improve matters.
I had always thought that the aircraft under discussion had been cut in a number of places in order to get it home - notably outer wings and rear fuselage, but this may be apocryphal! Can anyone confirm?
The comment above that the RNZAF Museum are keeping an eye on it may explain there complete lack of progress on their own aircraft over many years!
John is actually English, and comes from the Black Country (West Midlands).
Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:59 am
I think the RNZAF Museum would be the last place to get it, they knocked on John's door back when they opened the museum and demanded 'their' aircraft back- legend has it John ran them off with a shot gun 
Dave
Dave
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:00 am
Thanks Bruce!
I thought the RNZAF Museum only had parts - they have a fighter cockpit and nosecone on show. Can you elaborate?
Bruce wrote:The comment above that the RNZAF Museum are keeping an eye on it may explain there complete lack of progress on their own aircraft over many years!
I thought the RNZAF Museum only had parts - they have a fighter cockpit and nosecone on show. Can you elaborate?
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:25 am
Bruce wrote:.
I had always thought that the aircraft under discussion had been cut in a number of places in order to get it home - notably outer wings and rear fuselage, but this may be apocryphal! Can anyone confirm?
I suspect that only the the outer wings were cropped. The fuselage appears to be intact but the light was just about non existent.
A very long time exposure here.
PeterA
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:49 am
Peter, very brave to venture that far into the shed. Maybe he's tidied up a little to give some access?
DaveM2, the more recent staff at the museum have mended a lot of fences smashed down by the blunderings of the old guard at the museum. I was told by a few mates who were staff members there at the musuem in 2006 that they're on pretty good terms with him now, and he'd been allowing them in to measure bits of his P-40E to help with their restoration, etc. They had also found or built him a few bits in return they said. So perhaps a warming in relations. It's in everyone's best interests.
DaveM2, the more recent staff at the museum have mended a lot of fences smashed down by the blunderings of the old guard at the museum. I was told by a few mates who were staff members there at the musuem in 2006 that they're on pretty good terms with him now, and he'd been allowing them in to measure bits of his P-40E to help with their restoration, etc. They had also found or built him a few bits in return they said. So perhaps a warming in relations. It's in everyone's best interests.
Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:54 am
JDK wrote:Thanks Bruce!Bruce wrote:The comment above that the RNZAF Museum are keeping an eye on it may explain there complete lack of progress on their own aircraft over many years!
I thought the RNZAF Museum only had parts - they have a fighter cockpit and nosecone on show. Can you elaborate?
James, despite perhaps hundreds of visits to the RNZAF Museum over the years including the non-public areas whilst working at Wigram, I still have never seen the elusive Mosquito, but I am told that they have the colected wrecks of a couple that were donated by two Christchurch guys, I think it was Phillip Burns and another chap? Maybe Ted Packer?
Do you have a photo of the said cockpit and nose cone please? They must be recent additions to the public display area.
Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:26 am
Dave Homewood wrote:Do you have a photo of the said cockpit and nose cone please? They must be recent additions to the public display area.
IIRC, they were in the upstairs display areas.
Wheelchair accessible - extra points.
Not a 'real' Mosquito section, but parts in a 'visitor-proof' unit.
Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:15 am
James, now that I think about it that nose cone was always there in the 75 Squadron display, I'd forgotten about it.
That cockpit isn't the one they had a simulator hooked up to is it? It was like an arcade game where you attacked ships in a fjord. I'm sure that was a lot less realistic. Tis one looks quite good.
That cockpit isn't the one they had a simulator hooked up to is it? It was like an arcade game where you attacked ships in a fjord. I'm sure that was a lot less realistic. Tis one looks quite good.
Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:23 am
I understood that RNZAF Museum had acquired much of Ted Packers collection, which should comprise most of an FBVI, albeit in bits, along with two further nose sections.
According to www.mossie.org, they have parts of TE863, and RF597, but it is unclear just how much of either remains.
Time will tell!
Bruce
According to www.mossie.org, they have parts of TE863, and RF597, but it is unclear just how much of either remains.
Time will tell!
Bruce