Fantasy Design Bureau - repowering A-26 or B-25 4 COIN ops

fotobass · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:05 pm

Waidaminnit...that's the wrong USAF insignia.

aseanaero · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:09 pm

Hey thanks for that holedigger !

I like the little FLIR pod on the front

With those big props at flight idle you could probably come in at a 50 deg descent , with the PC-6 porter that I flew it was 38 degrees

mtpopejoy · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:17 pm

NICE!!!!
I like it holedigger!

norman malayney · **Joined:** Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:35 am **Posts:** 133

Gentlemen,

During research at NARA, I located a box that contained proposals submitted to the USAF relating to 23 different COIN aircraft. They were either light aircraft, small single-engine and twin-engine trainers, to twin-engine transports. These were only proposals with no modifications submitted in each case.

Bristol Aerospace of Winnipeg, performed modifications for the Beech Aircraft Company. One was a T-34 with one .50 caliber machine-gun in each wing, and two hard points beneath each wing to carry rockets or bombs.

They also configured a C-45 with two .50 caliber machine-guns in the nose, hard-points under the fuselage for bomb attachment, and two hard- points under each wing for rockets. Both examples were flight tested, but nothing further materialized in the way of USAF contracts.

Norman Malayney

aseanaero · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:38 pm

True Norman , the modern coin aircraft are all small aircraft or trainer derivatives.

The guys I spoke to said no substitute for lots of guns for this sort of mission. The A-26 photo at the beginning of the thread is at the OV-10 base at Malang, the local OV-10s had 4 x 50 cal and they reckoned that was a minimum (they upgraded them locally from 30 cals)

So maybe the current COIN doctrine is wrong ? These light aircraft can't carry the firepower and have really long loiter times where something like an turbine A-26 would.

It would be terrifying to have one of these A-26 monsters coming at you and with the right systems you could attack day or night.

Holedigger · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:51 pm

The father of one of my classmates in collage flew A-20s in Nam for um, er, not the air force. Black ops out of Laos IIRC. He would go in and lay down a big can of whoop A$$ on the designated target. Officially NOT THERE! Kind of messes up your service record!

aseanaero · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:06 pm

If you look at most of the insurgent action during the 60's in Asia and Africa the A-26 or the A-20 was there

I changed my mind on the guns , leave the 8 50 cals in the nose and go for twin 20mm or single 30mm Avenger gatling gun in a remote controlled belly turret linked to the FLIR

Where's Randy H ? I'd like to hear his comments

Holedigger · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:14 pm

As they retire the A-10's, pull that little peashooter and load it in the bomb bay. That would bump the firepower up a notch!

aseanaero · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:20 pm

And with all that room in the bomb bay you can feed it with more ammo than the 15 or 20 seconds it has in the A-10

K5DH · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:53 pm

I like the idea of bringing back the OV-10 Bronco. It's a combat-proven airframe that's tough, versatile, maneuverable, made for rough-field ops, already turbine powered, and still has a lot of growth potential. Stick the A-10's awesome Avenger Gatling gun in the nose, 4 x 20mm cannon in the weapons sponsons, cluster bombs and air-to-ground rockets under the wings, and you're ready to carry the battle directly to the bad guys, up close and personal!

Cheers,

aseanaero · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:55 pm

Your probably right Dean , just put some bigger engines on the OV-10 again

cozmo · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:08 pm

As neat as these ideas are, won't they all suffer from the same problem that keeps threatening to end the A-10's service?

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:37 pm

Nioce job Digger, but please go back to the original windscreen and clamshells !

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

cozmo wrote:

As neat as these ideas are, won't they all suffer from the same problem that keeps threatening to end the A-10's service?

Boeing is building new wings for the A-10. What retirement?

Quote:

Boeing receives A-10 sustainment and integration contract

Boeing has been awarded a four-year U.S. Air Force contract to sustain the A-10 Thunderbolt II weapon system and integrate current and future upgrades into the aircraft’s avionics, mechanical and structural systems. Boeing is one of three contractors that will fulfill A-10 Thunderbolt Life-Cycle Program Support (TLPS) task and delivery orders for the Air Force. The indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity TLPS contract will allow the U.S. Air Force to authorize up to $1.6 billion of aircraft support activity.

"We are honored to support the A-10 fleet to help ensure America’s men and women in uniform have the capability they need when they need it," said Bill Moorefield, Boeing’s A-10 program manager.

This is the second A-10 contract the Air Force has awarded to Boeing, which won the $2 billion A-10 Wing Replacement Program in June 2007. The WRP includes engineering services and the manufacture of up to 242 A-10 wing sets. The work remains on schedule as Boeing develops the 3-D models that provide the engineering foundation for the production of the new wings. The models also allowed Boeing to help the Air Force quickly resolve wing crack issues that temporarily grounded the A-10 fleet last year.

"Boeing’s TLPS solution will allow us to provide the timely and critical support the Air Force has come to expect," said Steve Waltman, director of Boeing Aircraft Sustainment & Maintenance, a subdivision of Boeing Global Services & Support’s Maintenance, Modifications & Upgrades division. "We look forward to building on an already strong relationship and, through our TLPS and WRP efforts, keeping the A-10 fleet flying for another two decades."

The A-10 Thunderbolt II, also known as the Warthog, was first introduced into the Air Force inventory in 1976. The twin-engine aircraft provides close-air support of ground forces and employs a wide variety of conventional munitions, including general-purpose bombs. The simple, effective and survivable single-seat aircraft can be used against all ground targets, including tanks and other armored vehicles. The aircraft is currently supporting operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:49 pm

Interesting, I read where lockheed was awarded a multi billion program to build new wings for the A-10. Wonder who's really building them ?

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Fantasy Design Bureau - repowering A-26 or B-25 4 COIN ops

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