Extremely rare recovered aircraft: Restore or display as is?

[Mgawa]

I will say what I think... best is to preserve it as it is as well it present very important historic machine. Not good to put it in working condition especialy if this require much effort.

Please do not consider seriously my post, I coming from country where is warbirds not known sight.

Cheers

[michaelharadon]

I wasn't aware of Fisher's 'raider's post CMH mission history. Thanks for posting it.

[Xrayist]

I think it should be left up to the person, or persons, who fund the recovery/project. They are investing their time and money, so it entirely up to them.

[Matt Gunsch]

it depends, some as recovered displays are very well done, such as the Betty in Chino, others have gone too far and restored the plane, then are showing it as crashed, the B-17E My Gal Sal is a example. Others Like Glacier Girl is able to be seen all over the country, vs in a static museum, where not as many can see it.

[wendovertom]

funny how I agree with the "it depends" attitude. I'd love to see a stash of early Navy jets (Cutlass, Cougar, Panther, Skyray) flying again! But then there are a few that should stay on the ground - Enola Gay/Bockscar are prime examples.

Tom P.

[bfowlernj]

What about all of the artifacts at Garber that could be displayed at Udvar-Hazy? They could be brought out and gone over (but not fully restored) at Garber or the new restoration shop at Udvar and then put out on the floor “as-is” until they are ready for the full restoration treatment. If we have to wait for all of them to go thru the new restoration shop, we’ll all be dead before they are done. The Bv155, Ju388, Me410, Ta152… The Ki45 Nick is on the Udvar floor, unrestored without wings, why not do that for the rest of the collection so we can at least see them on the floor at Udvar-Hazy?

[skydaddy61]

And then there's Dottie Mae, the last US aircraft to be lost in WW2...
http://www.alliedfighters.com/

Seems to me they're doing right by her.

[marine air]

bfowlernj is right. Many of those WW II treasures will never be seen by the generation that fought against them. SOme airplanes like the civilianized B-25 they have would take a lot of money to get up to Smithsonian standards. The German stuff is pretty much original, less a few instruments and souvenirs that have been pirated from them over the many decades they have been in storage.

[Hawkeye]

Thanks all for your input. I have to admit, I think I'm gonna have to eat crow on this one. I've spent the last couple days reading over all the Bluebird project diaries and had a complete change of heart. The quality of the work being done, attention to detail and amount of original material being re-used is astounding. I have to say I'm looking forward to seeing her upcoming test runs on Coniston Lake

[jet1]

easy

[jet1]

[Ken]

All the comments about Bernie's A-1 being kept on the combat flying schedule are spot-on. Hat's off to the USAF for deciding to preserve her before she was destroyed for good.

If you watched the hideous "Great Planes" - Skyraider, I believe there's footage of "the last A-1 (or A-1E) to leave SEA due to war weariness ... which is a bunch of bunk ... but anyway, some nice footage of an A-1E in fresh-looking SEA 3-color camo being lifted onto a ship. I believe the tail number matches Bernie's bird.

Note the Playboy bunny painted on one prop blade. I've only seen this marking on 6th SOS airplanes but not sure if it is a unit thing or a personal one. Knowing the AF, they probably didn't want to send it home looking shabby and asked a unit to repaint it (possibly the 6th).

NMUSAF repainted the airplane in 2-tone gray and kept the bunny. Looking at period photos, the accuracy of the gray sceme is questionable (admittedly using Paul Allen standards) but I'm not looking to make any waves - I'm guessing the airplane was repainted 30+ years ago and won't be touched again for some time.

Ken

[hahnej]

It's up to whoever is doing it; it's their money, effort, and time. Each one of us would do it differently if we all had the resources. No matter what's done, it's better than the bottom of the lake/ocean/jungle, etc.

Bernie Fisher's Skyraider is in the NMUSAF, in pristine condition. It looks like any other restored Skyraider in any other museum.

He landed it in a Special Forces camp that was being over run by NVA to pick up another pilot (!) who had been shot down, and won the CMH for his trouble. I read that the plane returned to base more holes than aluminum, having been the target of a lot of angry rounds.

To me, the cachet of that particular aircraft came from touching down on a strip that was under fire, its battle damage a perfect mirror-or reflection-of its pilot's bravery. It was the battle damage and the circumstances under which it was sustained that made the plane unique. To restore it to new missed a huge point, IMHO.

Was that airplane restored by the Museum from the bullet riddled hulk or did the in-theatre maintenance organization of the time overhaul it and return it to operational condition and send it back into service? My money is on the latter.

Dan

[JDK]

Good discussion, glad to see Hawkeye was prepared to review his original view, as we've seen since the first post, original question does not apply. However they need to get out more if they haven't seen museum staff using welders.

There's one presumption that needs clarification, IMHO. No artefact should be left 'as is'. - An artefact that is to be properly displayed 'as found' or as returned should be conserved, that is effort made to stabilise the object and its materials to halt (actually significantly slow) the inevitable decay, and sometimes to enable safe, public display.

If it is being restored to an 'as new' or 'to fly', condition, that's other, legitimate routes. Fine in their own mandate, but not the only or best option in some cases.

For 'owner decides' - maybe. However I'd suggest there are numerous aircraft that belong to 'the people' and those, such as the NC-4 at Pensacola (owned by the Smithsonian) Wright Flyer and Spirit of St Louis should never be up for that option. They are national assets or treasures. Likewise Memphis Belle, or G for George, or S for Sugar.

Often when museums get something, such as the Skyraider under discussion, they get it from a later period of its career, where the USAF had already rebuilt the aircraft for use - I'm sure no one's advocating adding make up 'damage' or shooting at the aircraft to 'replicate' the look of the aircraft after the rescue... However that 'damage' equates to over-zealous restorations which ditch much of the original material, IMHO.

The issue with the RAF Museum's Halifax isn't that is is not restored (though that's an issue for many) but that some parts have been restored (giving a mixed presentation - highly unsatisfactory) and the conservation methods originally undertaken have stopped working and needed to be redone recently, which I understand is underway. Though these are costly, they are cheap compared to a full restoration, and in the case of something like a Halifax, requires the replacement of a good deal of structure with modern replacement materials, so it can stand under its own weight without breaking - which removes the value as a historical document in its entirety.

Wrecked aircraft do show, as the Skyraider debate has highlighted, that the guys inside these aircraft did get smashed and bled and died. Museums showing nothing but pristine aircraft are really 'techno-shrines' as they ignore the somewhat difficult issues of the destruction of the crews and those on the receiving end - a key aspect of real history, and real commemoration.

Like the over-focus on pilots and ignoring support crew illustrated by the groundcrew biography thread, aircraft (and pilots) are only one part of the story. We owe it to our forebears to recognise the wider picture and their stories.

Oh, and PS - As to the "everything must fly brigade", can you either get the entirety of MARC airborne, or can it please? It's like a kid with 2 cents outside a casino demanding to win the jackpot. Put up or...

Just some views, YMMV,