Warbird Information Exchange

WIXlandia!

As named by Scott!

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"Hindsight is usually 20% off!"

In a way, yes!
My idea is to cater to the special interest groups as well as the general public.
There is a market for that out there and I'm just trying to see what we can do about it.
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

Maybe access also in the previous day, when there is less people?

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

As a hard core amateur aviation photographer (been doing it for almost 30 years), I've got some pretty strong opinions on this.

1) Photo pits are nice, if they are situated properly. The photos of the Thunder show above look like it was situated well. I've seen others that were too far away, too small (3-4 people deep doesn't work), or shooting into the sun.

2) Only allowing 'real' media in. What means 'real media'? I've been published many times, have shot hundreds of thousands frames of film, and think I'm failry good at it. I've been refused entry before because I didn't work for a TV station or newspaper. Likewise, I've seen the red carpet rolled out for someone who claimed to be representing a radio station in a state 1500 miles away.

3) Photo days, rather than static photo pits, have always worked best for me. Ramp access during arrivals or practice shows is great - you can move around with the sun, position yourself for the best shot, and not have to worry about a bunch of baby carriages under the wings. Now, this does have to be selective to work - you don't want someone who has never done it before walking around spinning propellers or jet intakes.

4) Trash cans, food stands, and ropes that make taking a good photograph impossible. There is something to be said for guest convenience, but does it have to be stuck right in front of an aircraft? Place all of this behind the crowd line and aircraft parking area.

5) Parking of the aircraft, for static shots. You sometimes have to wonder what rocket scientist is in charge of parking aircraft on the ramp. There are certain setups and angles that work well for photography, and others that don't. I've seen an awful lot of orange shirts who think parking airshow display aircraft is practice for parking aircraft on a carrier deck.

6) Display/flying aicraft. Please park these so they can be photographed from 'legal' positions. A lot of the times, especially at military shows or at shows with military display teams, these aircraft are parked far away, and it is impossible to get photos of them - and they are usually some of the most interesting aircraft in attendance.

There is more, but I'm getting boring already, aren't I?

I attend some 25-30 official air shows each year, and TOM is by far the best setup I've ever seen. On the above comment, there is a special area seperate for the media, the hardcore pit is for anyone that wants to purchase entry into this special area. If it weren't for the pit, travelling from Ca to MI for a show where I don't know anyone, it would be a lonely show, fortunately over the years of meeting people here and on FenceCheck I'm able to hang with a great bunch of people I've met through the message boards.

Selling a number of limited tickets in advance is a good idea (as at TOM), and avoids over crowding. Not very well advertised was a lift that was available down in the warbird fighter parking area, that anyone could pay ($10. - a bargain) to be raised up for some high angle static shots. I'm sure next year it will be better advertised.

Jerry, sounds like your headed towards this possibly for a show you might be involved iwith next year (?), if so, I would contact Tom Walsh of TOM (also a WIXer) for some pointers.

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Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

Roger, thank you for bringing up Fencecheck. I enjoyed that site and its participants, until, like most everything else, it became political. When they try to control who can and cannot get access to an airshow, that's way over the line.

There is a good local show in my area. I have had media credentials for this show since its inception, almost two decades ago. Last year, I was denied credentials - the reason - Fencecheck had 'negotiated' an 'exclusive' deal with airshow management where they would control who got access to the show on arrivals day. Anyone not representing a TV station had to go to Fencecheck and get their name on a list. Of course, you had to be a paying member of Fencecheck to be considered, and the decision on who got in and who didn't rested with the local Fencecheck web site rep. His close buddies got in, and the rest of us were left out.

I have no problem with Fencecheck helping get its members access to shows, but they have no right to try to exclude the rest of us.

Mr. O'Neill - if Fencecheck approaches you to gain access for its members, please do not grant them exclusives for anything - they don't speak for or control most of us!

bummer, I'm not a paying member either, maybe 100 posts over 5+ years, I think I'd be in your shoes too.

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Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

You are correct Roger!
I'm keeping copies of all the input here.
I can't put it out there yet, since we've still got to get the final go ahead from the local powers that be.
Believe me, you guys will be the first to know when the big green light is lit!!
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

Roger,
I'll tell you more at the Sacramento Show in two weeks!
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

See you there, Saturday.......

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Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

It is interesting to me that last year was the first time Fort Worth did a non media photo-pit and it was set up by a local guy, FC member. I was on the list but could not make the show so I opted out. (I didn't know about the exclusive deal) Now the interesting part is that this year Fort Worth is doing their own pit for more than three or four times the money that a FC membership costs...

I have no idea if the AFW price is in line with TOM or not but it seems a bit much to me considering the placement and the sun. My 2 cents worth.

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Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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Join us for the Texas Warbird Report on WarbirdRadio.com!
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Listen at http://www.warbirdradio.com

Was the military involved in this show? I would think that they'd have a real problem if real Media members were being excluded from an event.

Rich

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Rich Kolasa
www.crystalgraphix.com

I think Jeff Funk has said it best so far. As far as sun angle, I may be in the minority, but I feel that backlighting is not difficult for anyone with enough skill to call himself a photographer. By arranging for front-lighting, you're really doing a favor for a much broader group of people: the non-photographer guests, who will have less eyestrain and sunburned noses, as well as camera toters who don't switch their cameras away from the green square.

Before and after hours access us one that works on many levels. The light is best, the crowds aren't there, and in theory the airshow crew shouldn't be stretched as thin. I've been doing my own unauthorized photo tours at those times of day for many years, and I'd certainly pay in order not to have to explain my presence or risk being kicked off the ramp.

I'm sorry to hear that Fencecheck has grown too big for its britches. I faded away from that site because both the photos and the discussions got too repetitive, and I was a little embarrassed by some of the conduct of FCers at shows. There are some great folks there, but it is a small clique and should not be mistaken for anything representative of aero shutterbugs.

August

Interesting post. Too bad these aren't the facts.

Yes, Fence Check asked to have a photopit at this show for our members. We were to be treated like any other media outlet. NO exclusive deal was ever discussed. The only people we had "control" over was who participated in the photopit from our members. Any other media outlets had to apply as they always have. If the show decided to change who qualified as media, that was the show's decision.

If this show did indeed tell you we negotiated something exclusively for us, I wish someone would tell me as I would not do business with them again. To use us as an excuse to not allow others into a show in not right.

This is the second show I've heard of who have changed what qualifies as media. I am betting this is going to become more common as we go forward. So many websites, online "magazines," and other new media have sprung up in the last few years that it must be difficult for the media liaison to determine who/what is worth their time.

This same show referred to in the quoted message is switching to a paid photopit like Dayton or Thunder over Michigan. This is another trend I believe is going to grow in the next few years. As sponsorship monies are difficult to come by, this is an option to help make a little extra money.

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[size=85]Photoz by Liza

Sorry Liza - those are the facts. I was told by the show personnel, the same people I had gotten my media credentials from for the previous shows (about 16 years worth) that anyone not working for a TV station or newspaper had to go through Fencecheck. I was specifically told that Fencecheck had negotiated this. All media requests not from TV or newspaper personnel were funneled to Fencecheck.

I am a member of Fencecheck. When I was told of this by the airshow, I tried to get in on this, was told I had to pay my money first, then sign up, and would be told if I made the cut. Curious that the ones who made the cut seemed to be buddies with the local Fencecheck guy running things .....

I saw the 10 or so Fencecheck persons who were allowed on - they were wearing media credentials from the airshow, not any identification from Fencecheck. They were also roaming around at will - there was no photo pit, and I was told by one of them that they were presenting themselves as media in order to get access to restricted flightline areas.

I do not know what communcations went back and forth between Fencecheck and the airshow. I do not know what was requested or what was agreed to. I do know the result, and the result is the reality. Multiple people who had been covering this show for many years were denied access, and your group was cited as the reason.

Now, if you wish to continue, we ought to start another thread - this was not what this discussion was started about.