100% new built Turbo Goose for sale....

Holedigger · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:04 pm

The Mars continues to astound me. Rare beast, rarer parts. Any seaplane really takes a beating from those take off and landing cycles AND they get wet!!! Chalks seaplanes were very fun to watch take off and land, saw them in Miami and Bimini back in the 80's. Cool Planes, I've never had a chance to go up in one.

As the parts get harder to find (more expensive) I would guess that more shops will start making those hard to get parts. The Mars has a good paying GIG, which is the key to her still flying. Without that niche of firefighting, she and her sister and lots of other former warbirds would now be pots, pans and cans.

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:12 pm

Chaz Harris wrote:

Whenever I start to wonder about the possibilitiy of getting a C-119 flying, only to run out of engine parts, all I need to remember is two words:

Martin Mars

They are still running the same type of engines, R-3350-24W's, that the Navy did in the 1940's when they were built! All in all, only about 50,000 3350's of all types were made by Curtiss-Wright, most probably for the Constellation. I have googled around and only found 3 aircraft that used that engine (-24W). Three! :shock:

Also, only 7 Mars were built, meaning that all parts must be machined as no spares exist. (Which is why Coulson was smart, and has his own machine-shop for the Mars.)

So, as long as someone needs them, and can pay for them, they should be there.

(Also, parts may be hard to find, but most people eventually found those parts, as even though the supply may be low, it still suits the demand. At least most of the time. :wink:

)

-Chaz

Chaz,

One quick note on the Mars though, you need to remember that back when that whole thing started, Dan McIvor got not just the 3 Mars', he also got -

35 engines (6 at one purchase, 29 at another)
5,000 spark plugs
Several Cylinder Heads
and (for a measly sum of $3,200)
all of the US Navy's remaining Mars Equipment Inventory, which filled a space that was 20 feet wide, 10 feet high, and 200 feet long.

Coulson *STILL* hasn't fully used that stock. Then again, they also have 43 filing cabinets that the Navy gave to FFL that included all of the drawings and templates needed to build new aircraft if required.

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:26 pm

CAPFlyer wrote:

[ Then again, they also have 43 filing cabinets that the Navy gave to FFL that included all of the drawings and templates needed to build new aircraft if required.

Oh don't get my hopes up like that! I mean, the flying boats have shown consistent success over the years and it could be worthy of a second glance but the utter nightmare of building a few new ones could put a man in the grave just thinking about it. But if the power plants were swapped for turbos or something I could see a small fleet produced for around the world customers. Or we might just stick with the CL-415's.

Chaz Harris · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:33 pm

CAPFlyer wrote:

Chaz Harris wrote:

Whenever I start to wonder about the possibilitiy of getting a C-119 flying, only to run out of engine parts, all I need to remember is two words:

Martin Mars

They are still running the same type of engines, R-3350-24W's, that the Navy did in the 1940's when they were built! All in all, only about 50,000 3350's of all types were made by Curtiss-Wright, most probably for the Constellation. I have googled around and only found 3 aircraft that used that engine (-24W). Three! :shock:

Also, only 7 Mars were built, meaning that all parts must be machined as no spares exist. (Which is why Coulson was smart, and has his own machine-shop for the Mars.)

So, as long as someone needs them, and can pay for them, they should be there.

(Also, parts may be hard to find, but most people eventually found those parts, as even though the supply may be low, it still suits the demand. At least most of the time. :wink:

)

-Chaz

Chaz,

One quick note on the Mars though, you need to remember that back when that whole thing started, Dan McIvor got not just the 3 Mars', he also got -

35 engines (6 at one purchase, 29 at another)
5,000 spark plugs
Several Cylinder Heads
and (for a measly sum of $3,200)
all of the US Navy's remaining Mars Equipment Inventory, which filled a space that was 20 feet wide, 10 feet high, and 200 feet long.

Coulson *STILL* hasn't fully used that stock. Then again, they also have 43 filing cabinets that the Navy gave to FFL that included all of the drawings and templates needed to build new aircraft if required.

Wow! Didn't know they got all that, good to know!

-Chaz

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:07 pm

Chaz, I got all my info from the book - Martin Mars Flying Boats by Steve Ginter. It's #29 in his "Naval Fighters" series. I also have his Convairliner book and plan to get more. He is an excellent writer and his books are very well researched.

A2C · **Posted:** Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:09 pm

It's a Widgeon on the beach.

Rajay · **Posted:** Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:05 am

Ztex wrote:

It's nice but where do you hang the trolling motor?

Actually, we've talked about that. It wouldn't be hard to mount one on the bottom of the main entry door sill. Or maybe we'll design a water jet thruster system that could be used for trolling and also be used for docking. How does that sound? Of course, that would then require remote controls for the trolling motor....

Of course, we've just talked about those things at this point! I have also suggested sockets on top of the wing into which you could easily pop a fishing chair. What do you think of that?

And no, a standard Goose with round engines is NOT available. We own the type certificate (4A24) only for the McKinnon versions of the Goose (G-21C, G-21D, G-21E, and G-21G) and only have production plans for the G-21G version (680 shp PT6A engines, up to 10 seats, and 12,500 lbs max gross.)

Frakes Aviation still has the TC for G-21A, but they have not done anything to support it in 20 years or more and all of their official "paper" is collecting dust in a warehouse. The last time I looked, TC 654 didn't even show up under their name. The FAA has never updated the TC listing and 654 is still listed under Grumman American Aviation Corporation, which ceased to exist sometime around 1978 or so when it was absorbed by Gulfstream in Savannah.

Rajay · **Posted:** Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:24 am

The Inspector wrote:

The round motor is the ex TEUFELS Nursery airframe (or someone else really dug their scheme ask BDK).

The "round motor" in the background of the Bahamas beach photo is in fact Larry Teufel's N48550 (Grumman c/n 1061.) It is still his bird as far as I know and it is also an ex- Antilles Air Boats airplane that used to "work" in the Virgin Islands. I have heard, though, that he is considering selling the turbine that he put together to be "like" a G-21G (he "built" it out a G-21A that already had the McKinnon turbine engine STC installed.)

A2C wrote:

It's a Widgeon on the beach.

There are NO Widgeons in that photo. The white turbine belongs to Larry's neighbor in Hillsboro, OR and former "owner" of TC 4A24, Dan Vollum of Aero Planes LLC. N77AQ was the first G-21G built by McKinnon and it now carries serial number 1205. It was originally G-21A (JRF-5) c/n B-62. It is not a "stock" G-21G any more, though, as it has been modified with a huge custom cargo door on the right side. The cargo door is so big, it was necessary to remove the rear cabin window on that side and the rear cabin bulkhead at Sta. 26 also.

Rajay · **Posted:** Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:59 am

Rajay wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

The round motor is the ex TEUFELS Nursery airframe (or someone else really dug their scheme ask BDK).

The "round motor" in the background of the Bahamas beach photo is in fact Larry Teufel's N48550 (Grumman c/n 1061.) It is still his bird as far as I know and it is also an ex- Antilles Air Boats airplane that used to "work" in the Virgin Islands. I have heard, though, that he is considering selling the turbine that he put together to be "like" a G-21G (he "built" it out a G-21A that already had the McKinnon turbine engine STC installed.)

I got "scooped" by the Inspector. I literally just 5 minutes ago received an e-mail from Larry Teufel's mechanic Rob Lien and he told me that not only did Larry just sell N48550 (his radial-powered G-21A), but he also has a large inventory of G-21A spare parts for sale. Rob included a preliminary inventory list, so if anyone is interested, shoot me a message and I'll pass along the info.

He did not mention who the new owner of N48550 is, however. I'll have to ask....

Rajay · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:28 pm

Chaz Harris wrote:

Have not yet bought one myself, just have done a lot of research towards it.

As my understanding is, a "0-timed" engine does not have to be a NOS one, but rather an engine that has every part that wears or fatigues replaced or rebuilt to new-engine standard size (wear) and time limits.

-Chaz

You need to add one little detail to your understanding of the process of "zero-timing" any certificated aviation product; ONLY the TC holder (i.e. OEM) has the authority to "zero-time" something. Someone else can do it ONLY if specifically authorized by the OEM.

Rajay · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:36 pm

CAPFlyer wrote:

Chaz, I got all my info from the book - Martin Mars Flying Boats by Steve Ginter. It's #29 in his "Naval Fighters" series. I also have his Convairliner book and plan to get more. He is an excellent writer and his books are very well researched.

Really, because his No. 63 Grumman Goose book is full of half-truths, rumors, and old wives' tales in regard to the McKinnon, Alaska Coastal-Ellis, and Volpar/FWS turbine Gooses. I wrote to him about it, but never heard back from him.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:36 pm

Going back to chaz harris' post in Sept of 2009, why is everyone so wet and lathered about R-1340's? the GOOSE used R-985's. The 1340 was on the MALLARD (G-73) and the AG-CAT duster.

robkamm · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:09 pm

thanks for posting . one of my alltime favorites. nice to hear the Mars operators got all those engines! anyone got some pics of the lot of them?

troliver · **Posted:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:19 pm

One of my all time "awesome" planes! Thanks for the cool photo and outstanding info.

Flyingkiwi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:22 am

My first time posting on here, I believe...

But here are a couple of Turbo Goose pics taken from Farnborough lInternational 2010 last month...

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100% new built Turbo Goose for sale....

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