Warbird Information Exchange

Interesting question and a lot of good advice.

Some years ago I quit my then career because I didn't want to do the next job I was going to be promoted into. My wife and I had made a number of major decisions of what we wanted to do, and within a three year period (we thought it would take one, of course) we'd done that. These included emigrating from the UK to Australia, changes of career and all that implies. My key one was to switch to being an aviation writer (and editor) full time. Luckily Mrs JDK has held steadier jobs down meantime!

Two is good. Much more is possible than trying on your own, but as the income load shifts from one to the other, you must both e happy with the deal too. Don't take it for granted, I'd advise.

Decide on what you want - blue sky ideas, no concern of "if it's possible" - and you'll be surprised at how the cards start to fall for you. When I told my employer I quit, they gave me a generous ex-gratia payoff they didn't need to, which funded our (already planned) 3 month trip around the world. Bonuses do happen.

I'd say there's two things not outlined so far, I think important. EDowning's touched on one.

1. Do you want to earn a pile working hard for cash now, so you can play later in life, or do you want to enjoy your work and not earn as much but have longer, less expensive pleasures? Chose now, and stick to it.

2. Don't muddle careers in vintage and warbird aviation with commercial aviation. If you want one or the other, don't see spending time in the alternate area as anything else but a stepping stone to your choice. If you enjoy both, you are in a fortunate position. There are paying careers in vintage and warbird aviation, but few. I think we all know each other's first names... Volunteering will network you, but an also block paying opportunities.

As a professional in an aviation career, aviation people are often surprised I'm not a pilot. From my perspective, and from what you've said, do get your licence and keep it up. It will help you talk the talk, and will open doors otherwise closed. But it's not essential, and I wouldn't go back in time to get a licence.

Network ferociously (WIX is good!) and if you want to do some DIY career path planning, the book 'What Color is your Parachute' (Richard Nelson Bolles) is highly recommended. It's got good advice about interview and remuneration negotiation technique, and also - if you do the exercises - can help a lot clarifying what you really want to do and how to get there.

HTH!

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

As usual James' , aka JDK, comments are right on point. BTW, I guess we do know everyones first names, small group.

A couple of quotes that are germain, while you consider your options................

"Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans" - John Lennon

"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure… than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt

Both worth considering

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

JDK and Eric provided excellent perspectives. If your passion is warbirds, would working in aircraft insurance or corporate aircraft mgmt ultimately satisfy you or do you truly want to get your hands on warbirds as a pilot, mechanic or CAF/museum volunteer? Try to distill your aspirations down to their essential elements and ask yourself how you really, truly want to be involved in aviation/warbirds five or ten years from now. If the answer is piloting or maintaining them, then you have a few options. You can go Eric's route and maximize your career in the financial industry, bust your tail in order to earn the big money to pay for pilot training or even warbird ownership or you can quit your industry altogether and start training as a commercial pilot or mechanic. As a former USAF pilot and current 777 pilot for a major airline, I'll tell you the airline career is an unstable one, a long uncertain path to a comfortable living (with one of the big carriers) and even then it doesn't pay the big money it used to. It would afford you in time (several years) the means to buy something up to the cost of say a T-6 unless you had supplemental income from other sources (spouse or another business) or just lived in your car or hangar (wish I woulda thought of that sooner). You could certainly afford to sponsor/fly CAF aircraft on an airline income which is likely one of the least costly avenues to flying warbirds and a fun social outlet with other like-minded warbird nuts. There are only a handful of folks making a living maintaining or restoring warbirds, it's not likely a conduit to big money, but if that's what you wanna do, go to A&P school and start out as an apprentice in a shop at a commensurate wage til you build up experience and knowledge to command a higher wage. Be careful going into the aircraft mgmt or brokering business isn't just a half measure in the pursuit of your goal. I'm not saying that's what I think is the case...I'm not a mind reader, but really reflect and be honest with yourself what your goal truly is down the road and if it's possible, try to leverage your best talents to intersect with your passions to achieve an optimum result with you in the thick of a Eric-like, borderline crack addiction warbird habit. If the financial sector is the best way for you to make money to support your habit, maybe that's the tradeoff for being able to afford a warbird habit down the road. And remember often times the difference between those who achieve dreams and goals and those who don't, is having the courage to pull the trigger on it and go for it. You're still young enough to change course or just fine tune it. Your path will depend on your goals and how your skills and talents can best get you there while satisfying your passion for these machines.

Absolutely. There are a lot of people who'd like 'to own a Spitfire' today 'a Ferrari' tomorrow and so on. Sometimes they get given a chance and run away from it, mostly they just dream on.

On the other hand, I've met a lot of people living their dream. The difference is they decided they really wanted it and set out to make it happen.

I had a conversation a couple of years back with a WIX poster who was hoping to step up to neater warbirds. He knew he wanted it, he was working on it, yet there didn't seem to be the chance on the horizon. I bet he was going to make it happen, and within two years, he had.

Regards,

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Again, a lot of good advice from many different perspectives. My ultimate goal in life is not to become the next Friedkin or Lewis. Yes, I do want to be type certified in a P-51, but there are alternative paths to that other than ownership (CAF for instance). And I'm not specifically looking for a career in warbirds. I understand that's a very small niche and we can all count on one hand the guys that have been very successful in it. My passion my entire life has been aviation. My fiancee is well established and living her dream of being an architect and fully supports my venture into the aviation world.

I have decided not to pursue a career as an airline or corporate pilot. My flight instructor's wife was a 757 captain and was able to retire comfortably when the business was a little more stable than it is today. I want something more stable, something that allows me to come home everynight.

I'm at the point now where I have enough experience in the life insurance and retirement business to know I no longer want to be in it. As an account manager, i've seen both sides of the fence (the corporate world and outside in the field) and spoken to many different industry leaders and executives with lifetimes worth of experience. It's not for me. I'm just trying to narrow down which path in aviation I'm going to take.

As was mentioned before, this industry is cyclical like many others, and I feel the appropriate opportunity will be present itself at the appropriate time. I'm just trying to gain the foresight to recognize it when it's here.

Thanks again everyone for all your input. WIX is a wonderful place.

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Scott Greenfield

Scott-

You are not to old to consider the USAF or one of those 'other' services..... fight to fly, fly to fight and fight to win.....

gunny

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Scott 'Gunny' Perdue
www.scottperdue.com

actually i was referring to flying for a living as opposed to just recreational flying. the warbirds are a tough nut to crack unless you are doing it on your own dime,i fly the C47 for the YAF,and it was through the grace of God that i managed to get into that seat. i used to fly the Doug for love and money,now just for love !

Good advice from all and it sounds like Denverwarbirdfan has realistic expectations, which is very important. I'm in the airline bizz as well and can vouch for the instability and insecurity of such a career. Fortunately, things have worked out for me personally, but I have plenty of friends who are starting their lives over because they are furloughed or their airlines went bankrupt, etc. after 10 to 15 years in it. Believe me, starting your career and/or life over in your 40's or early 50's is not something you want to do.

The military is a good career, but if you expect to fly real airplanes, your odds of doing so are increasingly going down hill year after year. One of my buddies who is in the Air Force Reserve told me that for the first time in the history of the Air Force, the majority of people graduating from UPT (Pilot Training) are going on to fly UAV's, or UCAV's (unmanned drones), with little to no chance of eventually flying a real airplane. Perhaps Randy can give a little perspective on this, as I believe he is a UPT IP, and deals with this every day.

Like others have said, job satisfaction, sometimes is worth more than money. If you make a lot of money, but hate your job, it's probably not worth doing, IMO.

Good luck in whatever road you decide on!

Jet1's statement about the $4 million reminds me of a T-shirt I have that says "I know there's money in aviation - I put it there".

Walt

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If God had intended airplane engines to have horizontally-opposed cylinders, Pratt & Whitney would have built them that way.

Is flight training required for ATC? Mustangdriver might be giving me the bug. Actually I'd like to go to Jamestown NY they have a flight program. I might be getting laid off and I know I could take advantage of that. I got a little bit of money saved up to move out of this town. Its being invaded by gas drillers and prices on everything has tripled!

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Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com

A good slogan to keep in the back of your mind is one I tell to new to aviation student/mechanics in my classes (and I think someone here has taken as a tag line) 'Welcome to one of the few careers where you can be permanently temporarily employed' Operate within that motto so that you don't get discouraged when the job vanishes-keep punching and knocking on doors, network, connect, hand out business cards to people @ air shows and fly ins-beat your own drum because no one else will.
If you have a knack for electronics, there is a crying shortage for bench mechanics who can troubleshoot and repair the ever increasingly complex avionics in modern aircraft and it's always nice and warm and well lit, with an ipod and the coffee is only 25 feet away, and it's an easily transportable skill, just need a ballpoint pen no heavy toolboxes to push around.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

I am in, and cannot recommend anything in the civilian aviation sector during this deepening economic recession which may last another three to 10 years.
You are still young enough to get a commision as a pilot, navigator, WSO, flight nurse etc. The military is throwing out some huge signing bonuses and we need good people. If you went the enlisted route, you can be a flight engineer, loadmaster, or other positions that you get flight pay and other benefits on top of the basic pay.
If you want to start off in another direction from your current path and retire wealthy, then go into the military branch of your choice, and get in as deep and technical as possible, into the technology of flying/ maintaining/ deploying drones, and UAV's as possible. These are going to be the huge growth sectors in the next 20 to thirty years.

Hey Nathan, flight training is not an FAA requirement for ATC. Many colleges including the one I went to near Pittsburgh did require it. I think that it is a good thing to be a controller that also flies. It helps you understand alot more, and understand when is a good time to provide info, and whan is a good time to just be quiet and let the pilot do his thing. Also it gives you more credit with pilots that are based at your airport. The list goes on as to why it is a good idea. Even if you go to a school that does not require it, once you start getting settled with everything and get out of school and start making money, I would go after your private.
Eric, JDK, and Paul K all have good info.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Why don't you go visit your Air Guard recruiter and see what he has to say? You might be surprised!

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T-6F, N81857
warbirdridesusa@gmail.com

Fortunately, that is a significant overstatement.

Actually, it's a combination of two different bits of information.

First, in FY2009, that was the first year that the USAF purchased more unmanned aircraft than manned aircraft. Not a significant statistic, because there weren't many manned aircraft being purchased in the first place, but an interesting fact.

Fortunately, that first bit of info has had no impact on the second bit of info -- what kinds of assignments students are getting out of UPT.

While it is true that there are some RPAs (Remotely Piloted aircraft -- that's the new vogue word to describe UAVs, UASs, etc) being given to SUPT graduates, it is nowhere near "the majority" of graduates. The most recent assignment night I attended last week had a class of approximately 20 students, and there were 2 RPA assignments given. That is fairly typical -- 10% of a class -- although I have seen it be higher than that with smaller classes.

Remember also that the USAF has recently created a "new" career path for RPA-only pilots. It's in the test stages right now (the very first class graduated only last fall), but the plan currently is to select people for that job who would be otherwise not qualified to actually fly because of bad eyesight, physical problems, etc.

So, reports of the manned pilots' death in the USAF are an exaggeration.

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