Concord to taxi again

[F3V]

it's a very big Fake the Musée de l'air have not the money to keep Concord in Taxiing condition!

[AndyG]

Why go through all that work and not fly her?

The Concorde costs about 7 times the amount of money to operate as does a Boeing 747-400. At the peak of Concorde travel, British Airways was charging around $ 10,000 per person for travel between Washington D.C. and London. They still could not break even. If nationally subsidized governments and/or airlines couldn't afford to fly her, what makes you think a museum could?

I'm sorry you are quite wrong, up until the only serious accident, it was performing a roaring trade and very profitable too. Everyone wanted to fly in it, the rich and famous adored it and well understood the supreme advantage in short duration Atlantic travel it provided.

The concept clearly worked and the market and reimbursment for that performance is still there today. I pity the spineless UK and French Govt. individuals that killed it before it's time.

Concorde, the only museum piece that's still not obsolete.

[warbird1]

Why go through all that work and not fly her?

The Concorde costs about 7 times the amount of money to operate as does a Boeing 747-400. At the peak of Concorde travel, British Airways was charging around $ 10,000 per person for travel between Washington D.C. and London. They still could not break even. If nationally subsidized governments and/or airlines couldn't afford to fly her, what makes you think a museum could?

I'm sorry you are quite wrong, up until the only serious accident, it was performing a roaring trade and very profitable too. Everyone wanted to fly in it, the rich and famous adored it and well understood the supreme advantage in short duration Atlantic travel it provided.

The concept clearly worked and the market and reimbursment for that performance is still there today. I pity the spineless UK and French Govt. individuals that killed it before it's time.

Concorde, the only museum piece that's still not obsolete.

O.K., I guess the British Airways pilots who told me that were wrong also. I stand corrected.

[JDK]

it's a very big Fake the Musée de l'air have not the money to keep Concord in Taxiing condition!

I'd agree, except it was a Flight Global report, not MyMatesAeoplaneRag. You'd assume they'd check out such an unlikely story pretty seriously.

As to the viability of Concorde in service, it was a complex question, and (amazing though it may be) the bus driver might not be the most authoritative source (some, like Orlibar, know more about the aircraft than almost anyone).

The public interest on Concorde's retirement in the UK was unprecedented, with literally thousands of people standing for hours around airports to see the aircraft's last flights. I can't think of any other aircraft that has - or will - achieve that level of popular recognition and interest. None.

[rreis]

The public interest on Concorde's retirement in the UK was unprecedented, with literally thousands of people standing for hours around airports to see the aircraft's last flights. I can't think of any other aircraft that has - or will - achieve that level of popular recognition and interest. None.

I can think of the iconic status that the Spitfire has... and the interest spurred by the Saro Princess or the Brabazon when they were presented... which leads me to think on aeroplanes that are more than aeroplanes but true symbols, icons, in the minds of the anonymous mass (not the aviation lovers but everybody).

[JDK]

The public interest on Concorde's retirement in the UK was unprecedented, with literally thousands of people standing for hours around airports to see the aircraft's last flights. I can't think of any other aircraft that has - or will - achieve that level of popular recognition and interest. None.

I can think of the iconic status that the Spitfire has...

If I were unlucky enough to see the last flight of the last Spitfire, that might equate in some ways, and draw big crowds. However as a civil airliner and a technological achievement (rather than a war machine) despite its elitist nature, Concorde fitted a different niche.

...and the interest spurred by the Saro Princess or the Brabazon when they were presented... which leads me to think on aeroplanes that are more than aeroplanes but true symbols, icons, in the minds of the anonymous mass (not the aviation lovers but everybody).

It's an interesting area. What are the real iconic aircraft, rather than 'iconic' as a lazy, thoughtless term like 'awesome'. [That'd be a new thread, mostly filled with one word posts of the usual suspects. Yawwwwnnnn.]

Regards,

[rreis]

The public interest on Concorde's retirement in the UK was unprecedented, with literally thousands of people standing for hours around airports to see the aircraft's last flights. I can't think of any other aircraft that has - or will - achieve that level of popular recognition and interest. None.

I can think of the iconic status that the Spitfire has...

If I were unlucky enough to see the last flight of the last Spitfire, that might equate in some ways, and draw big crowds. However as a civil airliner and a technological achievement (rather than a war machine) despite its elitist nature, Concorde fitted a different niche.

...and the interest spurred by the Saro Princess or the Brabazon when they were presented... which leads me to think on aeroplanes that are more than aeroplanes but true symbols, icons, in the minds of the anonymous mass (not the aviation lovers but everybody).

It's an interesting area. What are the real iconic aircraft, rather than 'iconic' as a lazy, thoughtless term like 'awesome'. [That'd be a new thread, mostly filled with one word posts of the usual suspects. Yawwwwnnnn.]



Regards,

well, Why not start one? we had all agree what iconic would mean, though. I would postulate:

- Only aeroplanes that mean something on the collective mind apply (ie, beyond the elation of the aviation crowd)
- Icon in the sense of: symbol and vehicle to achieve a mean. ie, The Spitfire was seen has a symbol of resistance and liberty but also as a tool to achieve such resistance and liberty. Please notice these two thing can be decoupled: many objects are just symbols, other means but I would look to those that were perceived with both qualities.

cheers!


rreis, thread derailer ...

[Iclo]

JDIK: It's not fake like "a joke or a false information". The museum director had really announced that but It's not the first time that this sort of announce were made without any realisation after.

Andy G: you are the first people I sew saying that Concord was profitable. The price of the flight was so high that was difficult to have enough people on each flight.

[mustangdriver]

I am so glad that I had the honor of seeing the Concorde fly at Oshkosh. I think maybe Oshkosh 1998.

[Firebird]

Andy G: you are the first people I sew saying that Concord was profitable. The price of the flight was so high that was difficult to have enough people on each flight.

Air France flights maybe, but not BA. BA were doing quite nicely out of Concorde at the time of the Paris crash, and after the mods done, had every intent on flying them for another 10+ years.
It was AF/Airbus that wanted to stop, and didn't want BA to continue alone...
BA Engineering did look to taking on the DA (with BAe help) but the cost of doing so would then have not made it economical to fly, so BA had to capitulate and withdraw it's fleet also.

I was working on the Heathrow Terminal 5 project in 2003, in an office right next to the runway, so I was able to see the final months of Concorde service on a daily basis.

At 12.30pm on Nov 26th 2003, G-BOAF, the last Concorde built, appropiately made the last ever flight of a Concorde when it departed Heathrow on it's flight back to it's birthplace and final resting place at Filton. Here's a couple of photo's I took of it through the fence outside my office, on that last ever take-off.





Oh, and as for not mil.......

There were serious enough ideas about Concorde's in RAF service. Scheme's appeared in RAF Yearbooks back in the late 60's/early 70's of Concorde's in RAF Transport Command scheme's, and I believe, Skybolt missle pylon hardpoints have been discovered on the pre-production airframe that's now at the Brooklands museum. So, clearly, there were serious MOD/manufacturer proposals at one time for mil service.

Last edited by Firebird on Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

[lestweforget]

The thing that says everything to me about the status that Concorde had in the public's minds is simply that it is Concorde. It is not "a Concorde". A Spitfire is a Spitfire, a Mustang is a Mustang. Concorde is just simply Concorde. I was honoured enough to catch a few glimpses of it flying. I remember a high school, one flew over going into Glasgow airport. Everyone stopped what they were doing for a few moments, and just looked up at the sky. A truly beautiful machine, something sadly lacking in modern times.

[6trn4brn]

There ya go again Chris...couldn't agree more with ya buddy! 1998 was my first Oshkosh (yeah, yeah...late bloomer). When the Concorde took off on her afternoon flight, I videotaped her climbing into that crystal clear blue sky as well as the flyby and landing when she came back. Some of my favorite old airshow video to watch! I remember they were selling rides for $750 (??) up into Canada to go to some bombing range where they would break the sound barrier with the passengers. Another of those "woulda, coulda, shoulda" deals that I never took advantage of. Kick myself in the butt forever for that one

[bluehawk15]

I saw one of the BA planes at Waco, TX, back in 1986. There were there for the big Texas 150th celebration airshow. They were letting people, or was it just some people, go up inside it. Everyone was going into the cabin and looking around. I went the other way, into the business office. I got a good "tour" of it, as we had given the flight deck crew a ride in the CAF CenTex Wing's UC-78 (N64513, which is now at the WASP museum in Sweetwater,TX) and let the captain make a landing from the right seat. (he commented that it sure landed different than the Concorde!)

The most amazing thing to me was the old avionics. It was all "steam gauges". I commented to the first officer who reminded me that the technology was actually from the 1960's!