Any news on the P-38 recovery in Wales?

[tulsaboy]

The short answer to your question is "yes." But as James said, it is not that simple- variables like how shallow or deep, duration of immersion, relative salinity of the water (fresh water has salt too, just not as much as the ocean- and places like the Great Salt Lake and the Dead Sea are obvious examples of really, really high salinity), how warm or cold the water is, etc., along with the quality of the original materials used play huge roles in how much the airframe will have degraded and what preservation techniques are needed. Take a look at the difference between some of the shallow saltwater wrecks in the Pacific and the deeper, colder saltwater wrecks near Norway and Sweeden- generally deeper and colder, though not absolutely perfect, are much better than shallow and warm. Also consider the artifacts recovered from the Titanic- over 2.5 miles deep, really cold, under huge pressure for almost a century- yet paper, leather, cotton fabric, etc. are being recovered and preserved using carefully designed conservation techniques. I am not a scientist, but from what I have read about several similar efforts one of the keys to conserving and preserving artifacts recovered from saltwater environments is a series of freshwater baths to halt the degredation, slowly allow the salt to leech out of the artifact, while also keeping the object damp. If you just set some of this stuff out to dry, you will within hours have nothing left.

Hope that answers some of your questions, at least in a generic way. There are some really great, really in-depth resources available on the net if you want to read up on the science behind such recoveries. From what I can tell, the prime wet environment for a WWII airframe is what we have found in Lake Michigan- really deep, really dark, and really cold fresh water with minimal wave action.

kevin

[JDK]

Is there much difference between salt and fresh water recoveries? Or would similar precautions need to be taken for both?

Completely different. Hence the refs.

[ZRX61]

And, what is TIGHAR's eventual plan for the airplane? Besides a 'dataplate restoration' can this P-38 be restored to flying or static? Or at best is it going to be an 'as found' display?

Peace,

David

Tighars plans?? for an actual aircraft??? They wouldn't know what to do with one. The entire outfit seems to be one big con job.

[camshaw]

any updates on this beach p38???

[DoraNineFan]

any updates on this beach p38???

Recent photos in another topic show that the tides have now re-buried the P-38 under the sand.

TIGHAR must be too busy hiring lawyers to hire a digger...

[Warbird Kid]

any updates on this beach p38???

Recent photos in another topic show that the tides have now re-buried the P-38 under the sand.

TIGHAR must be too busy hiring lawyers to hire a digger...

So TIGHAR holds the sole rights to excavating and recovering this P-38? Their isn't a chance for someone else to recover it?

[ignomini]

The short answer to your question is "yes." But as James said, it is not that simple- variables like how shallow or deep, duration of immersion, relative salinity of the water (fresh water has salt too, just not as much as the ocean- and places like the Great Salt Lake and the Dead Sea are obvious examples of really, really high salinity), how warm or cold the water is, etc., along with the quality of the original materials used play huge roles in how much the airframe will have degraded and what preservation techniques are needed. Take a look at the difference between some of the shallow saltwater wrecks in the Pacific and the deeper, colder saltwater wrecks near Norway and Sweeden- generally deeper and colder, though not absolutely perfect, are much better than shallow and warm. Also consider the artifacts recovered from the Titanic- over 2.5 miles deep, really cold, under huge pressure for almost a century- yet paper, leather, cotton fabric, etc. are being recovered and preserved using carefully designed conservation techniques. I am not a scientist, but from what I have read about several similar efforts one of the keys to conserving and preserving artifacts recovered from saltwater environments is a series of freshwater baths to halt the degredation, slowly allow the salt to leech out of the artifact, while also keeping the object damp. If you just set some of this stuff out to dry, you will within hours have nothing left.

Hope that answers some of your questions, at least in a generic way. There are some really great, really in-depth resources available on the net if you want to read up on the science behind such recoveries. From what I can tell, the prime wet environment for a WWII airframe is what we have found in Lake Michigan- really deep, really dark, and really cold fresh water with minimal wave action.

kevin

When I was a kid, a C150 went down just off the beach in Goleta. They recovered and dismantled it, then put the parts in my folks swimming pool. Sadly, even after a short immersion in salt water, soaking in the pool did not save the airframe. Made a great story for the other kids at school though.

[BigGrey]

Hate to say it, but putting the C150 in a swimming pool probably hastened the demise. The chemical and PH balance in a pool is maintained with muriatic acid and chlorine which has a ton of salt in it. It was a nice try though.

Les

[Xrayist]

My understanding is that TIGHAR is trying to find a link to prove that AE survived and was piloting this P-38 when it went down. They have been very carefully searching for the wrong size shoe sole that was spotted near the P-38 and a piece of metal with rivet holes in it that doesn't match any panel on a P-38 but that they can actually prove it was from the P-38.

[Steve Nelson]

Don't forget the empty jar of freckle cream she used to protect her skin from the harsh Welsh sun.

SN