THUNDER OVER MICHIGAN 2012?

TOM WALSH · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:43 am

The Taxiway Photography/Photo Tour/Photo Pit crew are in for the Korean theme next year. The Korean War began on June 25, 1950 and lasted until a cease fire was declared on July 27, 1953. During this so called "Police Action", the USN/USMC alone lost 564 aircraft - 312 Corsairs, 124 Skyraiders and 64 Panthers.

F-51 Mustang Wings that served in Korea, were the 8th, 18th and 35th Fighter-Bomber Groups.

When you factor in all the aircraft/helicopter types that served, you have the makings of another don't miss T.O.M. event.

Until the 2012 dates are announced, keep your powder dry!

Cheers,

Tom Walsh.

F2G_lover · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:44 am

Anyone ever consider an air racing theme? Detroit did hold the national air races in 1951. It would be cool to see Rare Bear, Strega, Dreadnaught, the #57 & #74 F2G's, or really any racers that would be willing to make the trip. Might bring out some planes that haven't been seen here before.

PhantomAce08 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:24 am

TOM WALSH wrote:

The Taxiway Photography/Photo Tour/Photo Pit crew are in for the Korean theme next year. The Korean War began on June 25, 1950 and lasted until a cease fire was declared on July 27, 1953. During this so called "Police Action", the USN/USMC alone lost 564 aircraft - 312 Corsairs, 124 Skyraiders and 64 Panthers.

F-51 Mustang Wings that served in Korea, were the 8th, 18th and 35th Fighter-Bomber Groups.

When you factor in all the aircraft/helicopter types that served, you have the makings of another don't miss T.O.M. event.

Until the 2012 dates are announced, keep your powder dry!

Cheers,

Tom Walsh.

We didn't hear anything either day, but we would both LOVE Korean theme! OK... I did have to explain a bit more in detail as to what planes this would include, but once I did, Erica approved!

-Nathan and Erica

LARGEFLYER · **Joined:** Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:31 pm **Posts:** 181

WallyB wrote:

jwc50 wrote:

C-46 Commando (not sure about Korean War status of this one)

Yup. http://www.korean-war.com/KWAircraft/US ... s_c46.html

Doubt there will be any flyable C-46s next year though. :cry:

Why not? Tinker Belle is based in North Carolina and was at WWII Weekend this year!!!

mtpopejoy · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:59 pm

Dang Michael, you don't stop to come up for air do ya? Finished with this year, on to the next year. That is why you are the man and TOM is the best airshow in the world.

I would also have to vote for a Korean War theme. Would make for an interesting ground battle re-enactment as well!!!

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:35 pm

As much as I love warbirds, I couldn't help but vote for the Ford Tri-Motor gathering..I got my first airplane ride in a Tin Goose, and it's been my favorite aircraft ever since (I've been privileged to ride in three different Fords in my life..most recently the EAA's three weeks ago.) I'm not sure how realistic the idea is though. While there are a number of Ford Tri-Motors that are technically airworthy, I think the EAA's and Herrick's (he has two I believe) are the only ones currently being actively flown. The Kalamazoo Air Zoo's Ford has been rebuilt, but has been hangared for the past couple of years. I talked to a museum volunteer recently, and he said the museum has no plans to fly it unless a sponsor comes forward to underwrite the cost of operations.

SN

jwc50 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:40 pm

Steve Nelson wrote:

As much as I love warbirds, I couldn't help but vote for the Ford Tri-Motor gathering..I got my first airplane ride in a Tin Goose, and it's been my favorite aircraft ever since (I've been privileged to ride in three different Fords in my life..most recently the EAA's three weeks ago.) I'm not sure how realistic the idea is though. While there are a number of Ford Tri-Motors that are technically airworthy, I think the EAA's and Herrick's (he has two I believe) are the only ones currently being actively flown. The Kalamazoo Air Zoo's Ford has been rebuilt, but has been hangared for the past couple of years. I talked to a museum volunteer recently, and he said the museum has no plans to fly it unless a sponsor comes forward to underwrite the cost of operations.

SN

I don't think Ford Tri-motors would work unless they were part of a gathering of vintage airliners/transports including ones like DC-3's, DC-7B, Super Connie, C-54, Convair Liners, DC-6's, C-97 (Clay Lacy and/or BAHF when ready), C-46, Lockheed Electra, etc. As an example a theme like this might work for 2013, if say the show were in July again with the Blue Angels in the weekend preceding Oshkosh again and say the Lufthansa L-1649A Starliner under restoration in Maine was flying and making a tour stop at Oshkosh that summer before heading to Germany. It could stop at Thunder the way the EAL DC-7B did in 2010 AFTER being in Oshkosh a week earlier.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3333

Steve Nelson wrote:

The Kalamazoo Air Zoo's Ford has been rebuilt, but has been hangared for the past couple of years. I talked to a museum volunteer recently, and he said the museum has no plans to fly it unless a sponsor comes forward to underwrite the cost of operations.

SN

It has been pretty active hauling rides at OSH all week.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:24 am

Well now..that's some fantastic news! It's great to hear she's getting some air under her wings. I wish the Air Zoo would put together a ride program at the museum. I really miss seeing the old girl in the skies around here.

SN

kalamazookid · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:28 am

Steve Nelson wrote:

Well now..that's some fantastic news! It's great to hear she's getting some air under her wings. I wish the Air Zoo would put together a ride program at the museum. I really miss seeing the old girl in the skies around here.

SN

I wish they would inform members of the actual preservation and flying they're doing, instead of building more amusement park rides :roll:

Whatever ToM comes up with for next year, I'm going unless it's a "Gathering of Pitts Specials and Legends" or something similar to that. As long as they keep the show all military and warbirds, I'll keep going. I would love to see the Korean War theme done soon, especially since the vets of that war are getting up there in years and I don't feel as if they've ever been properly recognized for their efforts.

TOM WALSH · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:10 pm

A partial list for Mikey and Kevin to work from;

FEAF/UN Aircraft Used in Korea and Losses by Type

Furnished by CW2 Stephen L. Sewell

Type of Aircraft (Name)
Nation/Service

Subtypes Numbers Lost (All Causes)
Albatross USAF SA-16A 3
Avenger
USN
USMC

TBM-3E
TBM-3R
TBM-3S
TBM-3U

18
Banshee
USN
USMC

F2H-2
F2H-2P

15
Bird Dog
USA
USMC
ROKAF

L-19A
OE-1
OE-2

3 USA/ROKAF
9 USMC

Commando USAF C-46D 7
Corsair USN
USMC
AU-1
F4U-4
F4U-4B
F4U-4P
F4U-5
F4U-5N
F4U-5NL
F4U-5P

487 – daytime
62 – night missions
6 – photo

Dragonfly
USAF
USN
USMC

H-5D
H-5F
H-5G
H-5H
HO3S-1

17 USAF
26 USN/USMC

Firefly
FAA
RAN

GR.5 38
Flying Boxcar USAF
C-119B
C-119C

9
Flying Fortress USAF SB-17H 1
Globemaster USAF C-124A (1 – rarely used in Korea , one crashed off Japan in 1953 killing 129 crew and returnees)
Sentinel
USA
ROKAF
USMC

L-5
OY-1
OY-2

4 ROKAF
16 USMC

Hellcat USN F6F-5K 6
Invader USAF
B-26B
B-26C
RB-26C

154 bomber/strafter
3 reconnaissance
Kansan/Expeditor USAF C-45F 3
Mariner USN
PBM-5
PBM-5A
PBM-5S
PBM-5S2

15
Meteor RAAF F.8 42
Mustang
USAF
SAAF
RAAF
ROKAF

F-51D
RF-51D

409 fighter-bomber
68 reconnaissance

Navion
USA
USAF

L-17A 1
Neptune USN
P2V-3
P2V-3W
P2V-4
P2V-5

8
Panther
USN
USMC

F9F-2
F9F-2B
F9F-2P
F9F-3
F9F-4
F9F-5

163
Piper Cub
USA
ROKAF

L-4 36
Privateer USN
P4Y-2/PB4Y-2
P4Y-2S

5
Ranger/Sioux
USA
USN
USMC

H-13A
HTL-3
HTL-4

13
Sabre USAF
F-86A
F-86E
F-86F-1/10/30
F-86F-2
RF-86A

271 fighter/FB
4 reconnaissance

Sea Fury
FAA
RAN

FB.11 62
Seafire FAA Mk.47 1
Shooting Star USAF
F-80C
RF-80A
RF-80C

275 fighter-bomber
23 reconnaissance

Skymaster USAF C-54D 5
Skynight
USN
USMC

F3D-2 7
Skyraider
USN
USMC

AD-2
AD-3
AD-3Q
AD-3W
AD-4
AD-4L
AD-4N
AD-4NA
AD-4NL
AD-4Q
AD-4W

161 bombers
14 all-weather bombers
20 night bombers
7 radar platforms
9 ECM platforms

Skytrain (Dakota)
USAF
RCAF
RHAF
TurAF
RAAF

C-47A
C-47B
C-47D

12 USAF
1 RHAF

Starfire USAF F-94B 14
Sunderland RAF GR.V 2
Superfortress USAF
B-29
B-29A
B-29B
RB-29
RB-29A
SB-29

107
Shooting Star USAF T-33A 8
Texan
USAF
ROKAF

AT-6D
AT-6F
LT-6G

102
Thunderjet USAF
F-84D
F-84E
F-84G

234
Tigercat
USN
USMC

F7F-3N
F7F-3P

27 fighter/FB
1 photo

Tornado USAF RB-45C 2
Twin Mustang USAF F-82G 15
Chickasaw/Whirlwind
USAF
USMC

YH-19
H-19A
HRS-1
HRS-2

3 USAF
11 USMC

Unified Air Forces Aircraft Types and Losses in Korea

Type of Aircraft (Name)
Nation/Service

Subtypes Numbers Lost (All Causes)
Bomber VVS Il-28 Not used but sent to theater in case they would be needed
Bomber PLAAF Tu-2 9
Fighter KPAFAC La-9 At least 8
Fighter
VVS
PLAAF

La-11
3 VVS (training)
3 PLAAF

Fighter PLAAF MiG-9 Unknown (reported but Chinese state never committed to Korea )
Fighter
VVS
PLAAF
KPAFAC

MiG-15
MiG-15bis

345 VVS
At least 83 PLAAF
At least 1 KPAFAC

Fighter KPAFAC Yak-9P At least 30
Ground Attack KPAFAC
Il-10
Il-10U

At least 11
Jet Trainer
VVS
PLAAF
KPAFAC

MiG-15UTI No information
Jet Trainer
VVS
PLAAF

Yak-17UTI 1 (reported by USMC F3D-2 crew but “confirmed” as MiG-15)
Torpedo Bomber VVS A-20G (1- shot down when it was intercepted by USN F4U fighters)
Liaison KPAFAC Yak-16 Unknown
Trainer/Liaison/Bomber KPAFAC
Po-2
U-2

At least 7
Trainer/Liaison/Bomber KPAFAC Yak-11 Unknown
Trainer/Liaison/Bomber KPAFAC Yak-18 At least 3
Transport VVS Il-12 1

Cheers,

Tom Walsh.

Nathan · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:21 pm

Might as well pick another theme cause not that many aircraft in the list still flying or even around.

jwc50 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:38 pm

Nathan wrote:

Might as well pick another theme cause not that many aircraft in the list still flying or even around.

Nathan, surely you are not serious. Compared to other themes Thunder Over Michigan has had, a Korean War theme has a large variety of potential flying warbirds to choose from. In some cases single examples, in other cases multiple examples. At a minimum the following aircraft from Tom's list are available:

TBM/TBF
Albatross
L-19
C-46
Corsair
L-5
B-26 Invader
C-45
F-51
PB4Y-2
F-86
T-33
C-47
C-54
AD Skyraider
B-29
F7F
T-6
H-13/Bell 47
Sea Fury
MiG-15

And there are some other very rare but potentially available aircraft from Tom's list also. When you look at the list above compared to the numbers and types available for other themes at Thunder over the last several years (B-17's, P-47's, Skyraiders, C-130 Hercules, Avengers, etc.) it looks like a great warbird theme to me.

Remember even if this is the theme, there will be many other types of non-theme aircraft, both vintage warbirds and current military aircraft and perhaps civilian aircraft there in addition just as there always is.

m charters · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:47 pm

And what of other countries participation in the Korean War? The Fairey Firefly was also used in Korea with 2 examples flying in North America, one from California, and the other at CWH in Hamilton.

mw109g6 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:39 am **Posts:** 2

Mike,
The Korean idea is grea,t but consider this. The F-15 turns 40 next year. How about a "Gathering of Eagles - Evolution of fighter aircraft"
You could have everything from the Spad to the F-22 with a special emphasis on the F-15.
Just a thought.

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