Air Zoo Thinning the Collection More?

John Ceglarek · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:07 am

You are wrong about the Airzoo attracting the same folks regardless of what is on display. Yes, the families with kids would come regardless, but we still have many visitors who come to see the aircraft. Those folks wouldn't be coming if we had fiberglass models.

The B-25 is a cannon-nosed J model. As I said previously, it is nowhere near airworthy. As was stated elsewhere, the P-39 was never flown by the Airzoo due to it's rarity; also because it doesn't handle well. Some of the modifications made to it over the years have resulted in it's being rather difficult to handle.

The P-47 was originally purchased for Sue to fly, but in the end she never did...it was deemed too much airplane for her to handle.

kalamazookid · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:16 am

Tim's correct. The first aircraft in the collection was the Stearman, followed by the FM-2 and P-40. They added the Hispano and the F8F from local air racer Gunther Balz.

The B-25 never flew while it was with the Air Zoo. It was on outdoor display for a number of years before it was brought in from the cold and restored. It is an -H that has been restored as a -J. I'm not sure of the reason for that, but the scarcity of a correct -H nose is probably correct.

The new addition is nice, but I was hoping there would be more room to walk around the aircraft. They do have a lot of aircraft in it and they are presented nice, but it's still darn near impossible to get a good look at the Hellcat. It's packed in a row with the Corsair and the Wildcat, which you can at least see because they're on the end of the row. At least at the old facility you could walk around the back side if the Hellcat.

It has, unfortunately, become more of an attraction than a museum. I very rarely hear about any work being done on any aircraft, even conserving or restoring what they already have. The F-4 was removed from display a couple years ago, and a docent recently told me no work has been done on it yet. The S-3, probably the most complete example in any museum, has sat outside since it was donated by the USMC. It's a real shame they don't have it in the new museum with the other navy jets. At least when East Campus re-opens we'll be able to see the F-11 and Cougar again.

Tim Savage · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 8:26 pm **Posts:** 632

John Ceglarek wrote:

As was stated elsewhere, the P-39 was never flown by the Airzoo due to it's rarity; also because it doesn't handle well. Some of the modifications made to it over the years have resulted in it's being rather difficult to handle.

.

The P-39 absolutely WAS flown when it was owned by the Air Zoo. I saw it happen on several occassions, and I believe Mark Hrutkay posted that he saw it as well in the early 80s time frame. As I mentioned, "Rocky" Rockwell was the last person that I saw fly it, and I believe that was 1986. I started hanging out at the Air Zoo in the 1984 time frame, which was pretty early on, only five years after it was formed.

John Ceglarek · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:24 pm

Tim,

You're right...I meant to say the Airzoo stopped flying it, both due to it's rarity and it's odd flying characteristics. Obviously if they had never flown it, they wouldn't have known about it's flight characteristics.

Do you still live in the area?

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:09 pm

Warbird Kid wrote:

That P-39 was also originally a dual-control was it not?

Imagine the Collings Foundation flying around on tour with that!

Here she is from earlier days.

svengi · **Joined:** Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:44 pm **Posts:** 79

p-39 used to be a racer too, yea?

some nice pictures of it here:
http://highroad.smugmug.com/Airplanes/A ... 8796_2JuTz

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:29 am

The P-39 still has some of her racing mods. At some point she acquired a P-63 flat windshield, and the leading edge intakes have been slightly reshaped. I'm told the engine is actually from an F-82. When I was a docent at the Air Zoo I was told that one of the main reasons they elected to stop flying the aircraft was due to the difficulty of getting out in an emergency (the doors can be jettisoned, but you still run a big risk of hitting the stab on the way out.) Also, there were apparently some vibration issues in the drive train that would be difficult and expensive to fix.

The plane was repainted after the "incident" with the drunk driver, and had fake gun barrels added to the outer wings to more closely resemble a P-400. The colors and markings are reasonably correct, but the camouflage pattern is completely bogus.

SN

Xray · **Joined:** Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:25 am **Posts:** 533

Here are a few pics I took at Kzoo some months back - Blackbird was so large couldn't get a single decent profile shot

kalamazookid · **Posted:** Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:34 pm

Nice pics! Thanks for posting.

Some more notes on the museum B-25 for those who are interested:

The last flight of the B-25 was a drug smuggling operation; obviously the smugglers were caught and the plane was confiscated, and it somehow ended up at the Air Zoo. When it arrived, the aircraft had wing-tip tanks and the correct -H nose with all the gun ports faired over with sheet metal. I'm not sure what happened to this nose when it was removed- it may have been too corroded to use. The waist-gun windows were also faired over with sheet metal. However, there was a row of windows cut into the fuselage above the wings. These extended from about the leading edge of the wing back to around where the waist-gun windows were located. I really wish I had some photos of it during this time so I could show these mods. Maybe I'll be able to dig some pics up from an old newsletter.

I had the chance to sit in the B-25 about 8-10 years ago at one of the Open Cockpit Weekends and the aircraft is basically a shell. When I was sitting in the cockpit, I could look back from the pilots seat straight through to the end of the fuselage. None of the bulkheads are in place and none of the stations are restored. That's not to say it isn't a nice restoration, because it is. Compared to what they started with, it's miraculous they got it to look that good.

If anyone has any pics of the restoration of the B-25 or of any of the modifications, I'd love to see them. My Dad recalls that it wore a pseudo-military scheme when it was on outdoor display for awhile, but I've never seen any pictures of that. I'd be interested to see photos if anyone has them.

ktst97 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:01 pm

The July/August 2007 issue of Warbirds International has an article complete with photos about the B-25 now at the Zoo plus another Kalamazoo-related Mitchell. The article contradicts some info contained in a couple of the posts thus far in this thread in regard to the B-25.

John Ceglarek · **Posted:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:32 am

I am a docent at the Airzoo...the information in the Warbirds article is correct, to the best of my knowledge.

John

gary1954 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:13 am

kalamazookid wrote:

Nice pics! Thanks for posting.

Some more notes on the museum B-25 for those who are interested:

The last flight of the B-25 was a drug smuggling operation; This is true
obviously the smugglers were caught and the plane was confiscated, and it somehow ended up at the Air Zoo. clarification; N37L is without a doubt an "H" Model. The crew of the B-25 taxied the aircraft in on one engine into the sod parking area, and was met by the "follow me" vehicle. The crew of two locked the plane, went to the rental office and rented a sedan. They returned to the Mitchell, opened her up, and removed a couple of tool boxes and tossed them into the trunk of the sedan. They re-secured the Mitchell, got in the sedan and left the plane sitting, abandoning it there. No one was arrested and charged, or indicted in the incident because no one could identify the crew. The aircraft was not damaged in its landing at the McKinnon Airport on St. Simons Island, Brunswick, Georgia. She came in with a feathered starboard engine, nearly hitting a departing airliner.

After a while the Airport Authority who could not make contact with anyone connected to the plane, checked the plane and noted a strong smell of marijuana emanating from the plane. They called the Sheriff, the aircraft was opened up, and the strong smell of marijuana was prevalent, as the Bomber was packed with marijuana. The aircraft seized, and sold at the Sheriff's Auction.
Doug Brown, winning the Sheriff's Auction, became the owner of the Mitchell, hung onto her for a number of years, removing much of the interior, its JATO system and anything that was "unnecessary" in the aircraft; as he wanted to lighten it, I busted my knuckles a time or two on her.

When it arrived, the aircraft had wing-tip tanks and the correct -H nose with all the gun ports faired over with sheet metal. At the time that the B-25 (N37L) arrived at the Zoo, its nose was what Doug Brown called a "Bendix Nose" installed on the airframe, had been on it since the 1950's; it housed what was considered then to be the most up-to-date state of the art avionics and nav equipment. When N37L arrived at the Zoo there was only 1 B-25H in the United States that had a "cannon Nose" on it, which was/is 43-4999 aka N3970C. I believe that N5548N which was equipped with an attack version "J" model nose was still sitting in a field in Oswego, Illinois

I'm not sure what happened to this nose when it was removed- it may have been too corroded to use. The waist-gun windows were also faired over with sheet metal. However, there was a row of windows cut into the fuselage above the wings. These extended from about the leading edge of the wing back to around where the waist-gun windows were located. Clarification. If I recall correctly there was either tow or three windows I want to saw Two, in the bomb bay section and were located between the hinge point and the bottom of the wing of the Port side of the ship, low; a few inches from the hinge point. This was so the parties sitting on the couch in the bomb bay could view the country side as it passed below them. There were three small windows on the port/starboard sides, the smallest between the forward and aft spar. The cockpit emergency escape hatch was skinned over, but there were no windows in the "roof". The Blister windows were in place and intact the last time I saw her so I can only imagine that they were skinned over when she went to the Zoo.

I really wish I had some photos of it during this time so I could show these mods. Maybe I'll be able to dig some pics up from an old newsletter.

I had the chance to sit in the B-25 about 8-10 years ago at one of the Open Cockpit Weekends and the aircraft is basically a shell. When I was sitting in the cockpit, I could look back from the pilots seat straight through to the end of the fuselage. None of the bulkheads are in place and none of the stations are restored. That's not to say it isn't a nice restoration, because it is. Compared to what they started with, it's miraculous they got it to look that good.

If anyone has any pics of the restoration of the B-25 or of any of the modifications, I'd love to see them. My Dad recalls that it wore a pseudo-military scheme when it was on outdoor display for awhile, but I've never seen any pictures of that. I'd be interested to see photos if anyone has them.

marine air · **Posted:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:28 am

Were there two B-25's associated with the zoo? I believe you guys, and admit my memory must be wrong. But where am I thinking of a second cannon nosed B-25 re-fitted with an 8 gun with distinctive parrot on the front? Another B-25 from that period is the one with Cavanaugh. Maybe Sport Aviation had an article on what the Zoo intended to do with their B-25 (?) Sometimes plans get changed, I guess.

gary1954 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:44 am

If IRC this is the only B-25 associated with the Zoo. Wasn't Red Stevens B-25 the first one to carry the Parrot scheme, she was dressed with an attack version nose.

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:50 am

gary1954 wrote:

If IRC this is the only B-25 associated with the Zoo. Wasn't Red Stevens B-25 the first one to carry the Parrot scheme, she was dressed with an attack version nose.

I believe your thinking about the B-25 at the Liberal Air Museum in Kansas. Still there with the Parrot Scheme. Also there is a formerly flyable F4U-5 that now belongs to the USMC and will never fly again. :roll:

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