Your opinion on lives lost spending a lifetime in aviation

[CoastieJohn]

There is inherent danger in any thing we do. Flying takes complete concentration and knowledge while driving a car takes even more concentration because there are thousands of other drivers on the road. And while they are on the road they are eating, drinking, shaving, putting on make-up, texting or a slew of other things that take away from their concentration. I'm not saying that flying doesn't involve risks because it does, all I am saying is up there, there is usually only one person to blame, while down here there are others who are to blame. A man I knew who owned Fremont Airport in Ohio and was a WW2 veteran pilot who flew Corsairs off of carriers and was well into is 80's and thought that he had all the answers., well he didn't. June 2008 the airport was having a fly-in which I attended and there were plane rides being given throughout the day, as I was walking to my vehicle I noticed one of the planes taking off with 6 people on board as I watched the plane it started a gradual turn to the left, I thought nothing of it because the WW2 veteran pilot was at the controls so I continued on my way. Not long after leaving the airport I received a call from one of the employees at the airport who asked if I was still around the airport, to which I said no. He proceeded to tell me that the plane went down and all 6 on board perished. This is a true story and the moral I got from this story is: Pride is a good thing, but have the courage to swallow the pride and admit that you shouldn't do this anymore. After the above mentioned happened, it came to light that the veteran pilot was involved in a couple car accidents shortly before the fly-in and did not have his medical and was legally blind. I flew with the pilot a couple of times and the first time was in a twin engine and while flying he reached over and started leaning out the right engine while I was at the controls, I immediately set the mixture back. The second time we went up in a single engine and instead of us landing into the wind the pilot who knew it all, landed with a cross wind and gusts of around 40 m.p.h.

That story would support the old saying about there's old pilots and bold pilots but no old, bold pilots.

[cooper9411]

You got that right!

[wapeach]

[quote="cooper9411"] Pride is a good thing, but have the courage to swallow the pride and admit that you shouldn't do this anymore. After the above mentioned happened, it came to light that the veteran pilot was involved in a couple car accidents shortly before the fly-in and did not have his medical and was legally blind. quote]
Don't EEEEEEVEN get me started about senile drivers who mow down people......

[tinbender2]

I have no sympathy for pilots who kill their passengers because of their own stupidity. We had a USAF instructor pilot do severe acro in a loaded C-172, including flying under two adjacent railroad bridges, pull up into a hammerhead stall, and crash in front of dozens of beachgoers. He killed himself, a student pilot and their two girlfriends. His fellow USAF pilots publicly called him a murderer, and none of us went to his funeral.

Del Rio?

Affirmative.


This pilot also buzzed boaters on lake Amistad, coming withing 10ft of them.

People at the lake said he actually flew under one bridge and pulled up between the two bridges, but I don't think that was physically possible for even a fully acrobatic aircraft.

My flight got diverted from a MOA to intercept and identify, but when we reached the area, the 172 was a pile of wreckage. One of the girlfriends was the Wing Commander's daughter. The student pilot was one week away from graduation. What an incredible waste of life.

[ZRX61]

Not sure if I've had more friends die in plane crashes or from motorcycle wrecks. I could sit down & make a list to find out, but that's not something I really want to do. Both would be in double digits...

[wapeach]

Not sure if I've had more friends die in plane crashes or from motorcycle wrecks. I could sit down & make a list to find out, but that's not something I really want to do. Both would be in double digits...

I have 2 friends I lost to cancer. One just made captain on the 10 when he lost his medical and passed away some months later.

[John Dupre]

I think it depends on the circumstances of the accident. I can only recall two pilots I have known who died in accidents. Each was a hot dog in some way, flaunting the rules and common sense and running afoul of the FAA. Each took people with him though there was one survivor of one of the crashes. I don't have much sympathy for them since they made bad choices and should have known better.

Somehow in 30 years I have only seen the wreckage of one fatal accident, the result of a crash in a Lake amphibian trying to land in low light conditions on calm water. The pilot had recieved his endorsement that day. He was probably taught that in the event of "bouncing" a Lake off the water the thing to do is close the throttle and let it hit again. If you firewall it the pylon mounted pusher engine will produce a nose down moment and the plane hits the water at an angle. Instinct took over and two people were dead. I find it harder to judge him harshly except that he should have gotten more experience before taking his girlfriend along for the ride. I am sure his wife thought so.

I think the thing everyone in aviation has to remember constantly is that aviating is inherently the most dangerous form of travel. It is only as safe as it is because most everyone realizes that and acts accordingly. Forget that even for a moment and the odds go way down.

[fritzthefox]

There is no doubt in my mind that taking greater risks entails greater likelihood of mortality. Here is an interesting insight into the value of experience in offsetting those risks:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... tion=false

The article is interesting (and actually deals with warbirds in part, later in the article), but if you are not inclined to spend time reading it (it's a long and rather unfocused essay), one point it makes is that experience is often overrated as a determinant of performance. Statistical analysis of bombing raids made by several bomber groups during WWII indicated that experience of the crews had little or no impact on casualties. The job was inherently risky, and if your luck ran out, it ran out.

I think the biggest benefit of experience in aviation is in providing a pilot the wisdom to know whether or not he is taking a chance. But experience is of little or no benefit once the chance is taken, a subtle distinction that I think some of the bolder pilots overlook.

Some of the most important safety decisions pilots make happen on the ground.

Last edited by fritzthefox on Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Ploesti]

Time and time again I have read over the years stories about veteran military pilots who survived brutal combat, In some cases more than one war, to return to the States to continue to fly in some way for many more years and then to perish in a car accident or choke on a chicken bone or worse what happen to Marion Carl. (link below) I think for some veteran pilots who possess all the proper skill, experience and especially the right amount to seriousness and prefessionalism as a pilot that they probably feel much safer and more comfortable in the air than on the ground. I know when I fly there is never anything on my mind but flying the airplane. As it should be.

http://www.cloudnet.com/~djohnson/gen_carl.htm