Warbird Information Exchange

Gentlemen,

I had envisioned NOT sparking a furor with my post, rather I had intended on pointing out the very real potential of the portrayal of the nazi swastika symbol. And I believe as several have pointed out, that the idea of revisionist history serves no one any good and really, revisionist feel good historians would rather bury their head in the sand and ignore the reasons of why we fought that bloody conflict in the first place. In my opinion there is no need to fuel their fires of cleaning or as one poster here put it, sanitizing history. The idea of revising our past to make it more palatble to view is abhorent to me. We are what we are...warts and all as a race of beings on this planet. Move forward and LEARN from our past or we are doomed to repeat it. I believe Sir Winston Churchill said it (?) or perhaps another philosopher (I'll parahrase) "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"....

The point I was attempting to make is that while placing it on the aircraft in question, from a historical perspective would be a good representation of the time back then, in today's world we don't need anymore publicity if you will of what one of the worst times in human history was, ie....the swastika symbol.

As to two of the gentlemen who prompted the point of the Japaneese "Meatball" and the artocities perpetrated by the Japaneese Military during the war in the Pacific. I agree, the "Meatball" is also a symbol of terrible consequense during the war. And I adamantly agree that portraying those aircraft with their national (then) symbol would be historically inaccurate. Everyone acknowledges the fact of the crimes committred during the war on the Japaneese side.

BUT....can anyone tell me if any symbol other than the swastika has been brought this far forward into our modern times as a rally point of hate and violence ? The point here is that no one uses the "Meatball" or Rising Sun as their rallying symbol. The Japaneese were, from a historical perspective a militaristic and warlike race dating back to the time of the Samurai. They do not "worship" the Rising Sun as do the skin head groups of today with the swastika. The Japaneese to this day, many do not trully acknowledge their part in the human tragedy of WW II. The Germans have...but supremasist groups and hate groups do not. Which brings me back to the swastika.

It is a rally point of hate...even today. From a historic perpective relating to the aircraft brought back to life, should it be put back on ? The answer from many "purist" aircraft people would be a resounding yes....lawmakers would disagree. Museums display it....but one of the points I was attempting to make was that displaying the Luftwaffe Cross would be just as historically accurate in my view.

Look guys...I really wasn't attempting to justify or not justify the display of the swastika, And I was not trying to set off a nasty drawn out debate here. All I had originally intended was to see if modern day decorum could prevail with regard to our still living WW II veterans and those who lost their loved ones and families. Lets face facts...the Germans committed atrocities, The Japaneese committied them, and so did the Russians. And I would also imagine that my own countrymen from America did as well. We may like to think of ourselves as the cowboy riding to the rescue with the white stallion and white hat....but this was WAR, in all it's ugly terribleness. NO one was pure and innocent during that time.

I am proud of my country.....and I am proud of our military.

In conclusion....I would like to submit, to whomever owns, restores, or aquires, any aircraft, be they Allied or Axis....let your conscience be your guide. If you have a German plane....and you really want to be historically accurate.....paint it accordingly. If you would rather find a paint scheme more suited to being PC...then research and find one more to your liking.

But give the proper historic perspective to the men and women who fought, died, and served. And more importantly...give them their RESPECTFUL due. That is and was what I had attempted to put forward.

That is after all, a lesson that I learned from history.

Respectfully submitted,

Paul

the rising sun is a national insignia of japan, nothing of a symbol of hate. it is unchanged to this day since the war. the swastika represents ugliness of the most reprehensive repulsive philosophy in human terms of the 20th century. it originally was an american indian symbol of good luck. it was the nazis who polluted it's conotation for all future generations since ww 2. i don't want to lecture, or bore anybody, or sound repetitious.... but the general stand on learning history...... any kind history, is if it's not taught to the future generations it is destined to repeat itself. yawn!!!! yeah it's been repeated more than saying good morning since churchill!!! but i'll be the 1st to admit that plenty of people who served in the german armed forces of ww 2 were not members of the nazi party, let alone supporters of it. they merely fought under the cover of their nationality, it was the fanatics who drove the propaganda. there were guilty who fought under the flag, & not guilty who did their duty as soldiers, not war criminals. these people i forgive. the vermin who spread the hate, exterminated the other innocents aside from jews, by the millions, such as gypsies, catholics, mentally or physically impaired, russian civilians / soldiers, homosexuals, etc. on & on. the swastika on an airplane has no bearing on aviation history, it only has bearing on the history of mankind & civilization. if i can take this stand as a decendent of victims why can't non decendents?? this site is about aviation history period!!! ww 2 german planes had swastikas, nothing is going to change that. if 21st century nazi fanatics are restoring ww 2 luftwaffe planes with hateful slogans that are not historically correct, & offensive, well that's another subject, but that is not the case. am i driving my point home?? regards, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Because they still use the Rising Sun as their national symbol and have (pardon the wording, its the best I can come up with) "transformed" its meaning, if you will.

I understand why they don't want the Swastika on flying aircraft in Germany. They don't want to remember what their ancestors did. Think about it--if you'd done something horrible, would you want to remember it? For the most part, no, you wouldn't

The 262 is going to Germany. I can´t imagine many Germans would feel very comfortable about "oohing and ahhing" over something with a swastika painted on it. This way, they can at least enjoy the sights and sounds of their technical acheivements. They are all acutely aware of their politcal history - believe me. I live in Germany.