Surviving B-17s tail gunner type, What's the count?

hang the expense · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:29 pm

Left Seat wrote:

If memory serves me correctly, there is a “Cobra” connection with the five 1990 movie "Memphis Belle" B-17s.

In an effort to make the later manufactured B-17Gs to appear like the earlier “F” models, the production folks with “Belle” movie contracted Brian Angliss of Autokraft Brooklands Ltd., Weybridge, UK to build 4 or 5 “authentic” replacement early B-17F stingers.

At that time, Angliss was building the Autokraft MKIV, a “spiritual” continuation of THE Shelby 289/427 AC Cobra in his Brooklands industrial park facility.

He was at that time the owner of the “AC” trademark rights and of some of the original Thames Ditton factory production bucks for the original Shelby/AC Cobra.

His expertise in aluminum panel beating made him a logical choice.

The Autokraft MKIV cars are considered to be real Cobras (even if they can't use the Cobra name) and are listed in the Cobra registry. If you can't own a B-17, why not own a Cobra? It gets better fuel economy. Nice picture of an Autocraft MKIV here:
http://mycarquest.com/2013/06/the-ac-cobra-mk-iv-what-a-terrific-car.html

Only the former Bob Richardson B-17F-70-BO 42-29782 N17W was an “F” model. Check out the "stinger" in it's "fire bomber" days:

Makes you wonder what happened to the 4 Cheyenne tail turrets from the “G”s (assuming that they still had their turrets).

the Cheyenne assemblies were modified to look like the stingers which is ironic in that when the birds went through the modification center the stingers were modified into the Cheyenne.all the birds have the late model yoke in the stingers and are really different from the stinger yokes not to mention the extra frames 11G and 11 J.

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:06 am

Sasnak wrote:

By my count: 12 stingers and 31 Pumpkins, but I might have missed one or two! :shock:

Note: Only 7 of the 12 stinger airframes were originally delivered that way. 5 of them have had a replica unit installed.

Early style "stinger"
-"Swamp Ghost" E
-"Desert Rat" E
-Flying Heritage Collection (Paul Allen) E
-"Memphis Belle" F
-"Homesick Angel" F (Offut AFB)
-"Boeing Bee" F
-"Shoo Shoo Baby" G
-"Movie Memphis Belle" G replica unit
-"909" G replica unit
-"Thunderbird" G replica unit
-"Pink Lady" G (France) replica unit
-"Sally B" G (England) replica unit

One more:
-My Gal Sal E

hang the expense · **Posted:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:35 am

I think that thunderbird may have a real stinger tail gun from homesick angel IIRC.

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

Are the 2 under the ice/snow, from The Lost (Now found) Squadron, Stingers ? Still there? But not so straight, ( :cry:

) for now.

Ken · **Posted:** Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:27 am

Cheyenne section on display in a factory diorama in Smithsonian American History Museum, right? There was info in an earlier thread about its relationship to the Savannah Museum bird, wasn't there?

Ken

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:42 am

The one in the Smithsonian American History Museum belongs to City of Savannah. We loaned the tail stinger from the Grissom B-17 to them so that they could build the replica that is on there now.

daviemax · **Posted:** Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:01 pm

Several CB- and VB-17s had the tail gun station faired over as illustrated by 44-6301 Horizon, the VB used by MG H.J. Knerr.

hang the expense · **Posted:** Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:21 pm

There is one stinger from the Alaskan F model that needs some work and a brand new build sitting in my shop.At some point I will repair the Alaskan F model stinger.

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

WOW! Great Stuff !, Everyone ! Thank You ALL Very Much ! And p51, that story of the one that got trashed ! :shock:

What a bunch of Lug Nuts to let that happened , of course, just like the TONs of warbirds & parts that went the same way...well, There's always tomorrow ( darn you Annie!

) Thanks again, Tony

p51 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:04 pm

Interesting VB-17 tail gun fairing. Almost looks like a drop tank end placed there?

TBM Tony wrote:

p51, that story of the one that got trashed ! :shock:

What a bunch of Lug Nuts to let that happened , of course, just like the TONs of warbirds & parts that went the same way...

This was long before the internet when I knew of that B-17 position. It really was hard to tell when it was from where it ewas stored and the engle it was at. The guy also had several Marine Corps paramarine airborne drop containers. All worth a fortune today to military collectors, but instead got hauled off to the dump when the guy died. The kids just said to haul it off and be rid of it. If they'd just put the word out, the jackals would have, at least, given them some extra coin. I'm sure those B-17 parts would have bene saved.

daviemax · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:12 am

quote="p51"]Interesting VB-17 tail gun fairing. Almost looks like a drop tank end placed there?

TBM Tony wrote:

p51, that story of the one that got trashed ! :shock:

What a bunch of Lug Nuts to let that happened , of course, just like the TONs of warbirds & parts that went the same way...

This was long before the internet when I knew of that B-17 position. It really was hard to tell when it was from where it ewas stored and the engle it was at. The guy also had several Marine Corps paramarine airborne drop containers. All worth a fortune today to military collectors, but instead got hauled off to the dump when the guy died. The kids just said to haul it off and be rid of it. If they'd just put the word out, the jackals would have, at least, given them some extra coin. I'm sure those B-17 parts would have bene saved.[/quote]

IMO the fairing, in this case, was custom-made. It appears to follow the fuselage contours better than an add-on from a drop-tank or similar hardware. However, there doesn't seem to be a standard tail cone extension for VB aircraft and documenting these is hard to do. For example, I'm still searching for a photo of 42-31814, which may appear in the photo posted by Tulio in the "A Few Familiar B-17s" thread.

Fouga23 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:06 pm

One under restoration here:
http://01f15b4.netsolhost.com/b17_turret.htm

Left Seat · **Joined:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm **Posts:** 151

Non-modified Cheyenne turret on the factory "Commercial Transport" conversion (Model 299AB), B-17G-105-VE s/n 44-85728 (NX-4600), that was purchased by Trans World Airlines (NL1B), then eventually given to the Shah of Iran (EP-HIM), and finally being used as a survey/mapping & "parts plane" with Institute Geographique National (F-BGOE, not F-BGDE [ref. Baugher]).

Nice pictures of it in it's "NX" days on the "TWA Seniors Club" website, if you haven't been there before:

http://www.twaseniorsclub.org/TWAB17/TWAB17.html

Triplane102 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:55 pm **Posts:** 491

Great info, Fouga23 & Left Seat, Thanks! 2 more things, what about B-17 E 41-9244 at Black Cat Pass? Also I kept saying that the Stinger is a little longer than the Cheyenne , but the gunners back glass on the Stinger is almost even with the rudder 's edge , while on the Cheyenne, the glass is a Bigger, tall piece that extends past the rudder's edge, giving the appearance the " Pumpkin" is closer to the gunner. I could just be obsessing ! geek

turretguy · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:05 pm

I'd like to add three more to the count -- all Cheyenne modified tail turrets.

First, here's a picture of the Cheyenne modification kit, which best explains what parts were changed at the United Air Lines modification kit:

http://www.aerovintage.com/b17news7.htm

Scroll down to the May/June timeframe and you'll see a bumper crop of tail turret information.

The three additional Cheyenne tail gunner's compartments are one in a museum in Switzerland that came from a wreck, another (that I believe is an ex-fire bomber unit) that was on eBay in about 2006 or 2007 and at last report lives somewhere in the Santa Rosa, California, area, and mine, which is under restoration at Aero Trader in Chino. A lot of the parts from mine, including the yoke, were used to make patterns for other restorations.

So the number goes up by three.
Nick

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Surviving B-17s tail gunner type, What's the count?

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