Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:03 pm
The Invader that is over at the museum at Warner Robins is said to be a survivor of the Pigs invasion
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:46 am
zorro9 wrote:Chris:
Hi I do not think so. It would not have been cost effective to bring a fuselage fm across the pond. Hangar talk!!
Well, the authors of the book "Foreign Invaders" definitely thinks that the Cuban "advisors" in Angola brought back an A-26. They believe the former FAP 7101 is the aircraft in question. However, they think this is the complete A-26.
As for the photo of the bare fuselage, I have just seen it on the net, and the photographer id's it as being at the Museo de la FAR Havana, CUB 05-98. The complete 'FAR 933' was also present that day.
T J
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:45 pm
...anyone in here knows the whereabouts of the 1st Cuban B-26 #933 that defected c. 1958 at K/West/Miami area?? Tks in advance.
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:12 am
The complete B-26 that was on display at the Museo del Aire (now closed) in Havana was a Portuguese B-26 that the Cubans brought back from Angola and later painted as a FAR 933, then repainted as FAR 937.
The other derelict B-26 is very interesting. A knowledgeable Cuban told me that some years ago, while he was in Nicaragua, the Nicaraguans showed him a derelict but complete Nicaraguans Air Force B-26 that they had inherited from the CIA after the attempted invasion in 1961 and that had done missions against Cuba. This Cuban made arrangements to have the aircraft dismantled and shipped to Cuba. He further told me that those who were tasked with dismantling the aircraft in order to ship it to Cuba, basically destroyed the aircraft, which was shipped to Cuba nevertheless. He does not know what became of this airframe. Could this be it.
This picture, I can tell from the background, was taken at the Museo Del Aire, which no longer exists and all aircraft have been removed from the site, to an unknown destination. Possibly all cut up (I hope not).
There is a surviving Cuban Air Force B-26 (FAR 931 I was told) located at the San Antonio Airbase, south of Havana. They explained to me that originally was a B-26C but the Plexiglas nose was removed (with a kit that allowed such replacements) and replaced with a six gun hard nose. It still has turrets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/47udfrwppp6yh ... 6.jpg?dl=0
The other derelict B-26 is very interesting. A knowledgeable Cuban told me that some years ago, while he was in Nicaragua, the Nicaraguans showed him a derelict but complete Nicaraguans Air Force B-26 that they had inherited from the CIA after the attempted invasion in 1961 and that had done missions against Cuba. This Cuban made arrangements to have the aircraft dismantled and shipped to Cuba. He further told me that those who were tasked with dismantling the aircraft in order to ship it to Cuba, basically destroyed the aircraft, which was shipped to Cuba nevertheless. He does not know what became of this airframe. Could this be it.
This picture, I can tell from the background, was taken at the Museo Del Aire, which no longer exists and all aircraft have been removed from the site, to an unknown destination. Possibly all cut up (I hope not).
There is a surviving Cuban Air Force B-26 (FAR 931 I was told) located at the San Antonio Airbase, south of Havana. They explained to me that originally was a B-26C but the Plexiglas nose was removed (with a kit that allowed such replacements) and replaced with a six gun hard nose. It still has turrets
https://www.dropbox.com/s/47udfrwppp6yh ... 6.jpg?dl=0
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:21 pm
According to this website, the aircraft at the Museo del Aire in Havana was moved to San Antonio de los Baños Air Base after the museum closed in 2010.
http://www.sbap.be/museum/cuba/cuba.htm
As for the derelict A-26, here is a larger version of the photo zorro9 posted.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/8083277365/
Here is the photo of the A-26 nose referred to in the above photo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/8083272070/
Interesting anecdote about the Nicaraguan A-26. Hagedorn/ Hellström's Foreign Invaders book do note that the first four A-26s the FAN received were ex- Operation Pluto airframes. It also appear that several stayed behind when Dave Tallichet bought some ex- FAN airframes around 1977. I guess whether or not the derelict at the Museo del Aire in Havana is the one depends on when they got it from Nicaragua. The above photo is from May 1998.
That leaves the airframe you mention being at San Antonio. Was this claim made before or after the move of the Museo del Aire from Havana? If it is later, could it be a mix- up, as the Havana based 26 also has a six- gun nose? If not, there might just be another Invader present in Cuba!
T J
http://www.sbap.be/museum/cuba/cuba.htm
As for the derelict A-26, here is a larger version of the photo zorro9 posted.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/8083277365/
Here is the photo of the A-26 nose referred to in the above photo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/8083272070/
Interesting anecdote about the Nicaraguan A-26. Hagedorn/ Hellström's Foreign Invaders book do note that the first four A-26s the FAN received were ex- Operation Pluto airframes. It also appear that several stayed behind when Dave Tallichet bought some ex- FAN airframes around 1977. I guess whether or not the derelict at the Museo del Aire in Havana is the one depends on when they got it from Nicaragua. The above photo is from May 1998.
That leaves the airframe you mention being at San Antonio. Was this claim made before or after the move of the Museo del Aire from Havana? If it is later, could it be a mix- up, as the Havana based 26 also has a six- gun nose? If not, there might just be another Invader present in Cuba!
T J
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:40 pm
zorro9 wrote:B-26 Folks:
Among the many stories of the B-26 Invaders involved in the Bay of Pigs conflict is the one of a famous FAR B-26 #933 who landed at Miami airport c. April '61. According to new accounts of some declassified docs c. 1980s & the story of a Chilean pilot (name Ukn for now), hopefully still alive somewhere in Chile is the likely fact that FAR indeed possessed one solid nose sample of a B-26 Invader.
Unlike the sample that landed at Miami c. April 1961, (pic below) this one came fm the Santiago de Cuba area, a spare a/c that somehow was made airworthy during April '61. It was noted to be a FAR 937. It later crashed at the hands of a young Cuban pilot during take-off. I'm sure some more details will be emerging in the near future as to the true ID of this particular aircraft. 2 B Cont.. Photo via AEC.
The Chilean pilot's name was Jacques Lagas. He died in a C-46 accident in Chile in 1971. His regular aircraft, FAR 937, had been made airworthy from one that had been grounded for a long and time and had been cannibalized for parts. FAR 937 had six nose guns, no turrets and could not fire rockets or drop bombs. I was the first B-26 to attack the invading Brigade at first light on the morning of April 17th, but Cuban pilot Luis Silva was at the controls, after having stolen 937 from Lagas while he was getting briefed for the mission at Operations. When Silva returned from that first mission, Lagas recovered his 937 in which he made two more sorties on April 17.
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:48 pm
T J Johansen wrote:According to this website, the aircraft at the Museo del Aire in Havana was moved to San Antonio de los Baños Air Base after the museum closed in 2010.
http://www.sbap.be/museum/cuba/cuba.htm
As for the derelict A-26, here is a larger version of the photo zorro9 posted.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/8083277365/
Here is the photo of the A-26 nose referred to in the above photo.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/8083272070/
Interesting anecdote about the Nicaraguan A-26. Hagedorn/ Hellström's Foreign Invaders book do note that the first four A-26s the FAN received were ex- Operation Pluto airframes. It also appear that several stayed behind when Dave Tallichet bought some ex- FAN airframes around 1977. I guess whether or not the derelict at the Museo del Aire in Havana is the one depends on when they got it from Nicaragua. The above photo is from May 1998.
That leaves the airframe you mention being at San Antonio. Was this claim made before or after the move of the Museo del Aire from Havana? If it is later, could it be a mix- up, as the Havana based 26 also has a six- gun nose? If not, there might just be another Invader present in Cuba!
T J
The last Google Earth picture for San Antonio is from 2014 and there is no trace of the Museo del Aire aircraft. Two aircraft were added between the 2007 and 2014 picture when the aircraft on display there went from 9 to 11. No more.
The B-26C, which I was told is FAR 931, is located here: 22 51 33 14 N and 82 30 56 56 W on Google Earth.
That nose section in the picture seems to have a FAR number, as all FAR B-26s began with "9". Is it the nose of Lagas's "937" ? The Brigade's aircraft had fake FAR numbers but its unlikely that the Nicaraguan Air Force would have kept those fake FAR numbers all those years.
The "931" at San Antonio has been there for years, even when the Museo del Aire was still open. The 933, turned 937 at the Museo del Aire had no turrets. The "931" at San Antonio does. I have a picture of it where the turrets can be seen somewhere......
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:52 am
Just discovered this topic!
The Museo de la F.A.R. photos shown from Flickr are mine.
I was on a SAGA holiday (!!!! - I was only 49, but I married a slightly older woman so she just qualified)
Our tour guide stood up in the bus as we got back to Havana from ?? and said we were passing an area of various Technical Institutions & interest and they always tried to add places that he knew were of interest to people on board. Dying for a pee, I groaned and cursed the relevant person. Then they pulled up alongside the museum. The stop was for me!!
So it was a very hurried, crossed leg trip round unfortunately - I even took a photo of the other side of the nose section, but it was the end of the film and I lost it in the processing! Had I known about the aircraft involved, I might have taken more pix and looked for manufacturers plates
Note the cropped fin on what was '933' then, the ex Angolan one.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/84 ... 781791517/
This seemed to be a Cuban 'thing', along with an inablity to mould perspex in double curves https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/84 ... 781791517/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/84 ... 781791517/
We also visited the Bay of Pigs Museum https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/se ... 786788760/
All my photos are dated and geo-tagged in Flickr, but it was May 1998.
This article on the LAAHS site may be of interest in explaining some of the fake serials used in the Museo http://www.laahs.com/content/19-Bay-of- ... -Air-Force
The Museo de la F.A.R. photos shown from Flickr are mine.
I was on a SAGA holiday (!!!! - I was only 49, but I married a slightly older woman so she just qualified)
Our tour guide stood up in the bus as we got back to Havana from ?? and said we were passing an area of various Technical Institutions & interest and they always tried to add places that he knew were of interest to people on board. Dying for a pee, I groaned and cursed the relevant person. Then they pulled up alongside the museum. The stop was for me!!
So it was a very hurried, crossed leg trip round unfortunately - I even took a photo of the other side of the nose section, but it was the end of the film and I lost it in the processing! Had I known about the aircraft involved, I might have taken more pix and looked for manufacturers plates
Note the cropped fin on what was '933' then, the ex Angolan one.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/84 ... 781791517/
This seemed to be a Cuban 'thing', along with an inablity to mould perspex in double curves https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/84 ... 781791517/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/84 ... 781791517/
We also visited the Bay of Pigs Museum https://www.flickr.com/photos/elaref/se ... 786788760/
All my photos are dated and geo-tagged in Flickr, but it was May 1998.
This article on the LAAHS site may be of interest in explaining some of the fake serials used in the Museo http://www.laahs.com/content/19-Bay-of- ... -Air-Force
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:15 pm
Hudicourt:
Are there any pictures of the Angola B-26 sample??
Are there any pictures of the Angola B-26 sample??
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:06 pm
fah619 wrote:Hudicourt:
Are there any pictures of the Angola B-26 sample??
This is the Portuguese B-26 that was was talked about, the one imported from Angola. One can find older pictures of same aircraft with "933" painted on it. Both are fake......
That engine on the ground is a from a FAR Sea Fury .......
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:10 pm
Hcourt:
Good day!
Tks for the info, pic & data of FAR 937.
Found this Portuguese sample on the www. Poss Luanda, Angola c. 1970s. The site mentions that 5/6 B-26 samples were left behind in Luanda w/o further info. They also mentioned 'em to be in camo scheme. Photo via AEC.
The real FAR 933 that 1st defected to the U.S was in c.1958. Clear nose type. (Miami area) & its whereabouts are ukn for now. Why it would surfaced again in a FAR Museum near Havana is also a bit odd.
Good day!
Tks for the info, pic & data of FAR 937.
Found this Portuguese sample on the www. Poss Luanda, Angola c. 1970s. The site mentions that 5/6 B-26 samples were left behind in Luanda w/o further info. They also mentioned 'em to be in camo scheme. Photo via AEC.
The real FAR 933 that 1st defected to the U.S was in c.1958. Clear nose type. (Miami area) & its whereabouts are ukn for now. Why it would surfaced again in a FAR Museum near Havana is also a bit odd.
Last edited by fah619 on Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:56 pm
p.s The sample in question FAR 933. Miami area c. Dec 58. Photo via AEC.
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:14 pm
fah619 wrote:Hcourt:
Good day!
Tks for the info, pic & data of FAR 937.
Found this Portuguese sample on the www. Poss Luanda, Angola c. 1970s. The site mentions that 5/6 B-26 samples were left behind in Luanda w/o further info. They also mentioned 'em to be in camo scheme. Photo via AEC.
Not all of them. Some where camo, but at least one kept the original white/ bare aluminum scheme through to the end.
fah619 wrote:The real FAR 933 that 1st defected to the U.S was in c.1958. Clear nose type. (Miami area) & its whereabouts are ukn for now. Why it would surfaced again in a FAR Museum near Havana is also a bit odd.
Something must have been lost in translation here. Are you suggesting that the museum A-26 in Havana is the 1958 defector, which has then been AWOL in Angola?
T J
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:18 pm
T. J Johansen:
Good Day!
No, I'm not saying the previous. What I'm saying based on photo evidence is this:
1. The 1st & real FAR 933 defected to the US c. Dec 1958. (Clear nose). Whereabouts/fate ukn for now. I sure like to know.
2. The 2nd & fake FAR 933 defected c. April '61 (solid nose).This one came back at night to Pto Cabezas fm Miami, but the suspected sample crashed & it was later found NNE in the jungles of Nicaragua. According to a SAFO article c. 2003.
3. The most likely sample in Havana is FAR 937 since it was shot down by accident/friendly fire nearby. c. April 61. It's odd to see a FAR 933 surfaced again at the Havana museum c. 1998 or so. Someone came up with the wrong FAR Reg.
p.s As far as the sample being brought back to Cuba fm Angola...for what purpose?? There were plenty of derelict B-26s all over the island by that time. If someone can comes up with some pics of the logistics across the pond then that would be another story. It's also unlikely that the sample came fm the left over FAN stock left behind after 1961 as mentioned here. We'll see.. we'll keep digging.
Good Day!
No, I'm not saying the previous. What I'm saying based on photo evidence is this:
1. The 1st & real FAR 933 defected to the US c. Dec 1958. (Clear nose). Whereabouts/fate ukn for now. I sure like to know.
2. The 2nd & fake FAR 933 defected c. April '61 (solid nose).This one came back at night to Pto Cabezas fm Miami, but the suspected sample crashed & it was later found NNE in the jungles of Nicaragua. According to a SAFO article c. 2003.
3. The most likely sample in Havana is FAR 937 since it was shot down by accident/friendly fire nearby. c. April 61. It's odd to see a FAR 933 surfaced again at the Havana museum c. 1998 or so. Someone came up with the wrong FAR Reg.
p.s As far as the sample being brought back to Cuba fm Angola...for what purpose?? There were plenty of derelict B-26s all over the island by that time. If someone can comes up with some pics of the logistics across the pond then that would be another story. It's also unlikely that the sample came fm the left over FAN stock left behind after 1961 as mentioned here. We'll see.. we'll keep digging.
Re: Bay Of Pigs B-26 Invaders
Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:16 am
fah619 wrote:T. J Johansen:
Good Day!
No, I'm not saying the previous. What I'm saying based on photo evidence is this:
1. The 1st & real FAR 933 defected to the US c. Dec 1958. (Clear nose). Whereabouts/fate ukn for now. I sure like to know.
No, not FAR 933. You mean FAEC 933. The difference is quite significant. This was a B-26 operated by the Batista regime. Up until Jan. 1, 1959 when Batista fled the country those Invaders were not guerrilla operated.
fah619 wrote:2. The 2nd & fake FAR 933 defected c. April '61 (solid nose).This one came back at night to Pto Cabezas fm Miami, but the suspected sample crashed & it was later found NNE in the jungles of Nicaragua. According to a SAFO article c. 2003.
'FAR 933' did arrive in Miami on April 15, 1961. I have no info on where the Invader went after Operation Pluto. Never seen the SAFO article. Can't give an opinion on that. What is SAFO?
fah619 wrote:3. The most likely sample in Havana is FAR 937 since it was shot down by accident/friendly fire nearby. c. April 61. It's odd to see a FAR 933 surfaced again at the Havana museum c. 1998 or so. Someone came up with the wrong FAR Reg.
You are referring to the bare fuselage in Havana 1998 as being the genuine #937? I shall admit that I have never seen any hard evidence of a Cuban B-26 with the #937 in service. Only the aircraft more recently displayed in Havana. Hudicourt's post is the first I've heard about it. Just for clarification, we do agree that the Invader on display in Havana has been marked as both #933 and #937 over the years?
fah619 wrote:p.s As far as the sample being brought back to Cuba fm Angola...for what purpose?? There were plenty of derelict B-26s all over the island by that time. If someone can comes up with some pics of the logistics across the pond then that would be another story. It's also unlikely that the sample came fm the left over FAN stock left behind after 1961 as mentioned here. We'll see.. we'll keep digging.
As a war prize. Or donated by the Marxist regime in Luanda. Cuba had at one time 30.000+ troops in Angola. They fought with the MPLA until the late 80s. Why bring an A-26? Because the type had ties to Cuban history. Because it was a complete Invader at the time. Why mess around with derelicts if you have a complete aircraft?
T J