FAA shuts down Collings Foundation tours.....

[Kyleb]

and some of us worked on B-17 / PB-1W's when they were still working air tankers, but being a big shot, big mouth must make you special. Guess you would be perfect candidate to be a B-17 FE with the Collings Foundation

Regardless of what happened with Collings, dropping into a forum and throwing sharp elbows at other operators while posting under an alias isn't how you win friends and influence people.

[aerovin]

To be fair, he did not say he read "some books," he said he has been reading every B-17 accident report from 1944-1945 looking for information.

I had to read the FAA report several times, and it would surprise me to find that a majority warbird flying today for these type of flights do not have the properly trained crews on board....

...If you want to question my quals - in addition to my aviation experience, I have for the past 6++ years been reading every B-17 accident report from 1944 - 1945 looking for information for my books. Over 1,000 reports and I have read some crazy stuff, but this FAA report is damning.

He also seemed to be saying that he would be surprised to find that a similar situation for other operators...not the opposite. Perhaps that is not what he meant but that's what he wrote.

[bdk]

One would hope that all operators take these regulations and requirements seriously. An operator should have nothing to fear from an audit.

As with most accidents, it isn't just one thing that causes it, it is a combination of multiple factors.

[RyanShort1]

Regardless of what happened with Collings, dropping into a forum and throwing sharp elbows at other operators while posting under an alias isn't how you win friends and influence people.

Neither is jumping on newbies, y'all!

[blue3992]

Always got the impression that the Collings Foundation was well-funded, but the FAA report seems to paint a different picture.

Curious as to how their maintenance was structured? Volunteers? Paid staff? A mix of both?

[Clifford Bossie]

Always got the impression that the Collings Foundation was well-funded, but the FAA report seems to paint a different picture.

Curious as to how their maintenance was structured? Volunteers? Paid staff? A mix of both?

That is a good question. They bought a large part of Jaques Littlefield's tank collection and another B-17. Did that affect their maintenance funds?

[sandiego89]

Just wow, really tough to read some of the concerns highlighted in the FAA document.

I get we don't wont to compare operators too much, but some of these elements remind me of the 2009 Thunder City EE Lightning crash in South Africa where the investigation found serious deficiencies in the program, which most had previously thought to be a well funded, thoroughly run, safety conscious enterprise. Sobering.

[ZRX61]

I had to read the FAA report several times, and it would surprise me to find that a majority warbird flying today for these type of flights do not have the properly trained crews on board.

Wolf said 'It WOULD surprise me".. people are reacting as if he said "wouldn't"...

Or is this like when Americans say "I could care less" when they actually mean they couldn't? Clarification needed.

[ZRX61]

Always got the impression that the Collings Foundation was well-funded, but the FAA report seems to paint a different picture.

Curious as to how their maintenance was structured? Volunteers? Paid staff? A mix of both?

They have a volunteer group on FB with over 1000 members. It's not viewable to non-members.

[Mark Allen M]

I had to read the FAA report several times, and it would surprise me to find that a majority warbird flying today for these type of flights do not have the properly trained crews on board.

Wolf said 'It WOULD surprise me".. people are reacting as if he said "wouldn't"...

Or is this like when Americans say "I could care less" when they actually mean they couldn't? Clarification needed.

^ Agreed! although I usually replace "I couldn't care less" with "I couldn't give a f**K!" , but that's just me.

The guy seemed to be spot on with his post. No need to jump all over him if those of you doing the jumping didn't understand his post. Seems he has plenty of experience and knowledge. Read it again perhaps. Just a thought or just don't give a f**K! lol

[Matt Gunsch]

WOW, you read some books about the b-17 huh. You must be an expert then.

I guess we have to defer to the expert, unlike those of us who only have been working on 17's for the last 30-40 YEARS

and some of us worked on B-17 / PB-1W's when they were still working air tankers, but being a big shot, big mouth must make you special. Guess you would be perfect candidate to be a B-17 FE with the Collings Foundation

wow someone with 30 posts, who does not know who is who on the board, let alone their qualifications, I probably have more time wrenching on 17's 24's 25's and just about any other warbird that is flying today.

[wolf]

wow someone with 30 posts, who does not know who is who on the board, let alone their qualifications, I probably have more time wrenching on 17's 24's 25's and just about any other warbird that is flying today.

I have been in and out of this forum for the past 20-years, as well as the ex-AAF Forum, Aerovintage forum and bunch of other forums on and off since the mid to late 1990's. I walk-in see if the people are still as nasty as before then when I feel my efforts and experience are sh*t on, I walk away.

As far as wrenching on 17's, 24's & 25's, do I have to remind you that the pilot of 44-83575 had over 6,000 hr in type, he still screwed up his emergency, still screwed-up his landing and still screwed-up the maintenance on this B-17 (and got himself and his passenger dead) -- Just because you have 40 years "" being a wrench head "" does not mean you know what you are doing is correct.

[Vagabond]

Always got the impression that the Collings Foundation was well-funded, but the FAA report seems to paint a different picture.

Curious as to how their maintenance was structured? Volunteers? Paid staff? A mix of both?

That is a good question. They bought a large part of Jaques Littlefield's tank collection and another B-17. Did that affect their maintenance funds?

Point of clarification - It is my understanding that the Littlefield Collection was donated to the CF by the widow/family of JL. I imagine they invested funds for transportation and refurbishment, but I don't believe they 'bought' it.

[Clifford Bossie]

Always got the impression that the Collings Foundation was well-funded, but the FAA report seems to paint a different picture.

Curious as to how their maintenance was structured? Volunteers? Paid staff? A mix of both?

That is a good question. They bought a large part of Jaques Littlefield's tank collection and another B-17. Did that affect their maintenance funds?

Point of clarification - It is my understanding that the Littlefield Collection was donated to the CF by the widow/family of JL. I imagine they invested funds for transportation and refurbishment, but I don't believe they 'bought' it.

I stand corrected. The collection was willed to The Collings Foundation and after his passing some of it was sold off at auction.

[ZRX61]

Always got the impression that the Collings Foundation was well-funded, but the FAA report seems to paint a different picture.

Curious as to how their maintenance was structured? Volunteers? Paid staff? A mix of both?

That is a good question. They bought a large part of Jaques Littlefield's tank collection and another B-17. Did that affect their maintenance funds?

Point of clarification - It is my understanding that the Littlefield Collection was donated to the CF by the widow/family of JL. I imagine they invested funds for transportation and refurbishment, but I don't believe they 'bought' it.

There was a fund raiser at the time to come up $10M to transport the collection across the country & build a shed for it. There was also mention that CF would keep all the unique stuff.. some of which ended up being sold off at the auction.