CAF Nose Art Panels

[bdk]

The fact that the artists were employees of the government at the time probably precludes even the artists from claiming copyrights on the art. Any inventions I come up with on my job are the property of my employer, not me!

Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer!

[Jack Cook]

The fact that the artists were employees of the government at the time probably precludes even the artists from claiming copyrights on the art.

That's like saying every personal photo taken by every service person ever belongs to the gov't.
Most of the nose art guys did it in their spare time and the crews usually paid them with a bottle of the good stuff.

Last edited by Jack Cook on Sun May 14, 2006 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[k5083]

The fact that the artists were employees of the government at the time probably precludes even the artists from claiming copyrights on the art. Any inventions I come up with on my job are the property of my employer, not me!

That's not a crazy idea, but two issues are relevant. First, the employer only owns the copyright in your work if it is a "work made for hire," i.e., within the scope of your employment or ordered or commissioned by the employer. (Note that I am NOT talking about "inventions" or patent law here.) I do not think most nose art was created as a work made for hire -- indeed, it was more like vandalism of government property, although of course the services encouraged it when the morale benefits became apparent. It is not my understanding that the USAAF actually commissioned nose art or assigned personnel to paint it, except perhaps in rare instances. Second, the U.S. government itself cannot claim domestic copyright in its works, i.e., works "prepared by an officer or employee of the United States Government as part of that person's official duties." So either the copyright rests with the artist or, if it was a work for hire for the government, it is public domain.

August

[Jack Cook]

What plans does the CAF have for these panels since they're claiming copywrites over them???

[FG1D Pilot]

go to the web site and see what is being done.

[Swiss Mustangs]

Also besides the CAf collection what other musuems or private collection have nose art preserved.

RER

The Swiss AF Museum has a panel of a B-24 nicknamed "Tequila Daisy" on display - this plane suffered from a collapsed nose-gear on landing - 11th July 1944. The panel also shows a beautiful Vargas artwork.

B-24J 44-40168 - 492nd BG 857th BS, code 9H-R - crew of 9 interned

Will post photos asap.

Martin

[RickH]

Rob if you go to Midland, when you introduce yourself just tell them your name is Scott, or Ryan, or Tim,.... well you get the picture.

[k5083]

As for the copyright problem as far as I can research the CAF might have whats called limited image copyright.

Basically its like any other musuem that have a peice of art work they can limited how the peice is copy and produced. I ask one of my art dealer friends and she took three hours to explain it to me

Don't ask an art dealer. Ask a lawyer. Then you won't have to spend three hours hearing about something that doesn't exist.

Google the phrase "limited image copyright". I'm not recommending Google as a legal resource, but if it existed, there would be at least one hit!

August

[k5083]

My friend has alot of Adams photos that she has what she was calling a Limited Image Copyright not sure what it means but what I do understand is that while the images is owned by who every she has the right to used it in publication and advers.

Probably your friend has a license from the copyright holder to do those things. It does not come automatically.

Normally I would not bore the group with all of this, but I know that many on this forum are affiliated with museums, and museums should be aware of their rights and responsibilities with respect to things like nose art, document and photograph collections that frequently wind up in their possession.

August

[bdk]

That's like saying every personal photo taken by every service person ever belongs to the gov't.
Most of the nose art guys did it in their spare time and the crews usually paid them with a bottle of the good stuff.

Does the military let you have a second job while you're in?

Like I said, my lack of a law degree may be apparent!

[Randy Wilson]

The American Airpower Heritage Museum owns the nose art items on display in their museum in Midland and they are part of the museum's collection. The museum is in the same location as the CAF HQ but is its own entity. Some of the nose art designs and their titles are Trademarked by the museum, which limits their use without specific permission from the museum. I hope that helps to clear up some of the questions in this thread.

As has been mentioned, you can learn about the ongoing preservation of these items at the main AAHM website which is http://airpowermuseum.org or at the noseart site http://savethegirls.org. The second site/domain is due to the adult nature of some of the art work and concerns about parental controls, etc. Fly safe.

Randy Wilson
AAHM member
CAF member and pilot

[TimAPNY]

Rob if you go to Midland, when you introduce yourself just tell them your name is Scott, or Ryan, or Tim,.... well you get the picture.

darn you, Don't give him ideas!

Tim

[k5083]

Thanks for the info Randy. That does help.

Thanks to Randy's information, anyone can see the AAHM's trademark registrations by searching on

http://www.uspto.gov/ebc/index_tm.html

using the museum's name with "Search Owner Name and Address." You'll see that they've registered about 20 of the nose art designs and subsequently abandoned one, which has the word "Coke" in it.

Trademarks are not copyrights, and they restrict a narrower range of uses than copyrights do. Now that we know that AAHM has chosen to trademark the nose art, one who is contemplating using a photo of the nose art should educate oneself about the basics of trademark law to assess whether the intended use might be infringing.

August