Warbird Information Exchange

How many active B-17's have full, working gun turrets?

That's a good question...if I'm not mistaken I believe the Collings Foundation bombers both have working ball turrets. I'm not sure if it just moves via the hand crank or if they actually have functioning motors and hydraulic units. Either way I'd love to get inside one and take it for a spin!!

John

Yankee Lady has a full ball turret, though I don't know to what degree it works. I assume that it is non-functional. There's a plexiglass cover that prevents access to it from inside the plane.

It does give a wonderful view of the ground passing below in flight.

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Phil K.
Yankee Air Museum
Systems Admin / Ramp Crew / Professional Photo Ruiner

Here's a couple of video captures from the DVD:





Looks like Fuddy Duddy's half-a-turret.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

I've flown in ours several times now and (909) and it functions with hand cranks. I posted shots on webshots from inside the turret. It is really quite comfortable and I am around 6' tall. The B-24 turret is fully functional with hand cranks and partial electrical movement. Hopefully our crewchief on 909 will find time to get it working completely on its own power. The goal is to get them all working eventually.

Jim Harley

About a dozen or so years ago I restored much of a Martin 250 to display condition. Able to be cranked around by hand, I seem to recall two reasons why the owners didn't want it completely powered up:

a) They didn't want small fingers and such getting caught in any gears, and

b) The amplidynes only had a service life of around 20-25 hours.

Am I remembering those times correctly? The turret designers were doing some pioneering work with small amplidynes. Having them fry on a regular basis might be a real headache (and possible fire risk for a flyable aircraft?). Anybody familiar enough to comment further?

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

Dan,

I've heard of guys restoring Martin 250 CE upper turrets and Emerson nose turrets for static display like you did. Supposedly you can daisy-chain a couple batteries to the turret which will power it for a short period of time before they have to be recharged.

I don't know of any fully operational electrical turrets that are in flyable aircraft though...except for the B-24 ball that partially works as Jim mentioned.

John

Dan,

Was this your Martin 250 on display at the 2001 Wings of Eagles show in Elmira?

I don't get how cutting a turret in half gets you two? The top half looks nothing like the bottom half. Am I wrong?

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

It's not getting two turrets out of one but rather not opening a large hole in the fuselage. Granted, skin patches were applied to post-war B-17s over the ball turret openings, but it's easier to attach a half turret to the external fuselage than it is to open the hole back up and deal with structure, turret rings, mounts and other equipment for both the aircraft and the turret. See also Catch-22 B-25s.

Mike: The turret I worked on was for the Wisconsin Wing of the CAF. It was to eventually get mounted in their Harpoon project, and for years was hauled around on a trailer as a display.

The amplidyne issue keeps floating around in my head. They are, of course, necessary in a flyable aircraft to compensate for the extra load everytime the gun barrels swing out into the slipstream. But on a ground display turret they really wouldn't be necessary, now would they?

Hmmm....

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

to the best of my knowledge an amplidyne would be neccessary on an aircraft due to weight and practicality concerns. a huge battery bank would be needed to generate enough current to keep those turrets moving at top speed on demand. not to mention the power that the generators required to charge the batteries would rob from the engines at the most crucial of moments. for those laymen out there an amlidyne is basically a high output dc generator. they had a very high current multiplication ability and were usually driven by a smaller electric motor. i would imagine that they could have also been driven hydraulically as well. batteries would also wear out very quickly in a turret application. especially using 1940s battery technology. on the ground however i would think that a high output dc welding machine would probably do the job quite nicely. this could be powered by almost any type of prime mover or land power source. please correct me if im wrong but i think that this just about sums it up. cheers sim.

Speaking of ball turrets and whole ones that are somewhat intact, does anyone know how complete the ball turret is on Preston's Pride, the badly neglected Tulare, CA B-17? Pics available at:

http://ben92252-01.tripod.com/

It's hard to tell from the pics you provided and I have to admit that I'm not too familiar with this particular B-17. Obviously you can get a pretty good idea of how intact it is just by simply giving it a good exterior inspection. Fiberglass fakes are pretty easy to spot right off the bat. If it's an original (which it probably is) you can inspect to see how much of the interior (if any) is still there. Probably the most common missing internal "guts" parts are the gear boxes (azimuth & elevation) as well as the electrical components (cables & main switch box). I've seen some ball turrets with nearly all internal parts stripped out and with only the fake .50 cals installed. They're basically a shell with guns. The biggest reason for the lack of internal parts is simply the scarcity of them (and the cost when you do find them).

John

John ~ in January this year ~ the UK's Channel 5 tv channel showed a 4-part tv series on the history of flight.

One of the many highlights in the program titled 'Warplane' was a section showing live firing from twin .50's mounted in a ball-turret mounted in a large frame

This program also featured what was billed as the first known use of a working Norden bomb sight ~ to drop practice bombs from Taigh Ramey's B-25 ~ and that is awesome to watch too !

I have tried to find out who the production company was ~ but without success .....

In your pursuit for ball-turret items ~ it might be worth contacting Taigh t www.twinbeech.com

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Blue Skies .....

Peter

Consolidated by US state ~ see if there's a heavy bomber tour stop coming to an airport near you ...... http://www.bomberflight.info

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